Female sexuality

[Monkeytrousers]

hello and welcome

I would like to disagree with one of your first points MT. I am definitely designed to sleep around indiscriminately when I am ovulating. I don't do it though

okay just thinking about christmas nickname (see here if you'd like a sneak preview, and came across this very good reason for men to eschew porn for the sake of their children's genetic inheritance.

There are some studies that show an increase in sexual arousal around ovulation. In some animals this is obvious ie oestrus or 'heat'.
Oestrus - the word comes from the greek for 'gad-fly' via the latin for 'frenzy'!!Though in humans the relationship is much more significant in determining sexual behaviour, there are studies which show women are more interested in sex, and sex with different partners, when oestradiol (the particular oestrogen)peaks at ovulation.
'A German study found that women on the pill found the world a much more platonic place than women using other methods of contraception. They were also less likely to be charmed by pictures of babies.'(Deborah Blum in "Sex on the Brain")

Should we be surprised that we are more easily aroused when fertile?
Why did we, and other primates, evolve to be interested in sex when not fertile? Hrdy's work is largely based on this question and her main answer is to confuse paternity. Because males of many primate species attempt to kill infants they have not fathered, they will not harm infants when they have mated with the mother. But in humans females have been more restricted in their sexual behaviour and men do not normally kill infants.
Concealed ovulation and females mating throughout the menstrual cycle may be a factor in human pair-bonding ie if females were only attractive to males when fertile and females only interested in sex when fertile, males would just move from fertile female to fertile female.

There is a recent study showing lap dancers make more money when ovulating. Is it because the men can somehow tell the women are fertile? More likely, I think, that the women are feeling far more horny when ovulating and behave more sexily.

Etin leaves it there and wonders if this is too much too soon.

...and this relates to OBM's Christmas name how, exactly?

I'd agree with that premise Etin.

I definitely notice changes in drive (and broodiness) when ovulating. (and I know when I'm ovulating because of very obvious physical signs also - including a fair amount of pain).

pw.

OBM that link is about on the par with WOrld War 1 Bomber Found on the moon. IN present daydeveloped societies human beings take note of various studies, and ignore them, and do or do not behave according to what the studies allegedly show.

Damn, and I was so sure it was actual Science.

re interest in sex when not ovulating, there is the social-bonding and pair-bonding aspect of it too, cf bonobos (who are admittedly more extreme than we are...)
Apols if nowt to do with what you are talking about, apart from my high-heeled contribution, I've only read the last few posts.....

Etin - according to this study, women actually are more attractive when ovulating which would be explain why the lap dancers make more money.

It also shows that women are not just more sexually aroused generally when ovulating, but more sexually aroused specifically by men who aren't their regular partners when ovulating.

It suggests that while for men the evolutionary advantage lies simply in recognising and impregnating fertile women, for women the evolutionary advantage may be to sneak off at the right time in the month and seek out a different man from her long term mate to provide the genetic material for her children. (Apparently flycatchers do it too.)

Obviously we're cleverer than flycatchers and have notions like love, honour and fidelity to inform our decisions and stop us throwing ourselves at strange attractive men once a month - not to mention the practicalities - but I think it's a very neat explanation of what lies beneath both male and female sexual attitudes and behaviour. It would certainly go some way to explaining the male impulse to control female sexuality, as Madamez has already alluded to.

However I am not a scientist, so have no idea whether this study is particularly sound scientifically.

What does everyone else think?

Or should we get the swedish chef from the muppets to come back?

I absolutely start getting the hots for random men when ovulating. I don't do it on purpose, I just get glazed and on occasion following people around without noticing. I think it is my one day a month insight into being male.

When TTC I got plagued with thoughts of propositioning numerous strangers who happened to catch my eye. My body definitely thought it would be A Good Idea.

I get like that too.
I really enjoy it..... (The thinking, not the doing - though who knows - I might enjoy the doing too if things were different...)

Prunie, Hi, I did allude to the pair-bonding theory and its an important aspect of all this. And I'm sure we'll come back to bonobos again!!

kittock, thanks - I'll have a read of that study.
Personally, I do think I feel more attractive, energetic etc around ovulation. There have also been times I've noticed how I find males in general sexier around that time - and not just high status or the best looking males. Occasionally just males!!! This, I think, gives some insight into how men feel pretty much all the time ie they are fertile all the time and and pretty much ready for sex. We are like this only part of the time.

Back later.

I enjoy the feeling very interested in sex bit

I find the unwilling plotting of ways to cheat on my dp less enjoyable

it is quite a strong compulsion

Madamez, you can buy Mothernature for just over a fiver on amazon - it addresses all the points you are interested in.

Thank?s, Etin ? knew it was a good idea having you on board!

VeniVidiVickiQV ? there is a name for that ? when you get an ovulatory ?pang?.. It is in Hrdy?d book. Damned if I can remember it now.

Franny, you make an interesting point about being attracted to random males when ovulating ? but crucially, not following that through. This is something I think that traditional feminism gets its knickers in a twist about, when evolutionary biologists say that men are more libidinous that women, that they assume this means men will sleep around given the chance. This is not the case at all, men weight up the costs and benefits of infidelity just as women do ? they will still fantasise about sleeping around more than women do however ? which is what porn is all about! There, full circle!

People are not so much ?programmed? by their biology to do anything outside of an environmental context (and this includes culture). The sexual choices of women change depending on if they are looking for a long term, or short-term mate ? as with men. If males are in short supply or for some reason are not good investors in offspring, then it is then that a woman might decide to share her eggs out of the one basket, so to speak (clumsy analogy, sorry). She will still have more fantasies about it around ovulation, but if she has a good, high investing mate, then it isn?t to her advantage to risk that pair bond. So, you see, it is all contingent on circumstances, and not a hard wired ?programme? at all.

What is it called Etin, situation-dependent sexual receptivity?

When I say not programmed, I mean it in a singular deterministic sense, but there are a predictable number of behaviors to choose from, and they are more predictable depending on circumstances (ie not infinite), from an objective view. We, make these decisions uncouscioulsy.

Another interesting insight from evolutionary theory re pologyny is that competition between males is at it's highest in this environment. Far from being benificial to all men, as is commonly assumed by both men and women, men are actually the disadvataged ones in polygnous societies, where only the highest ranking men have many wives and provide a high standard of investment (perhaps not the emotional sorty though)and the majority of men have no wife!

..i.e. no sex!

Sophable - I think this might go to help answering your question

Think this is an easier format to read but it isn;t the whole text I think

Broke my own record there for talking to myself!

We are too busy reading to post
Have you hit your stride or what!

I'm on fire DaddyJ!

It's no good mt. The last lecture I went to was given by a tall man in tight leather trousers. About the Roman invasion of Britain. He seemed to have a thing about soldiers - especially ones in short leather skirts. Not attractive but a very compelling, if somewhat disturbing, sight none-the-less. I'm not sure this is going to capture my attention in qute the same way.