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Original poster

'This is first class not a kindergarten' SORRY LONG RANT about train travel...

56 replies

Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:35

This happened 2 weeks ago but I'm still stunned/gutted/keep thinking of clever dismissive things I should have said to the git...

Me, dh and the 2 boys (4 and 6m) were getting on a Saturday morning London-Manchester train and decided to go Weekend First. We got on and immediately got that sense of the whole almost full carriage going 'oh no, kids'. Well, we're used to that. Then dh (struggling with pram) said 'why don't you take ds1 into the next carriage, there are more seats there'.

So, took ds1 into carriage. Middle aged man is sitting on first 4 seater table alone typing furiously on laptop.

ds1 asks in his (admittedly piping) voice on entering, 'is this a quiet coach'

Man (scowling directly at him): 'yes it is, so shut it' (or words to that effect, couldn't quite catch it)

Me (stunned) 'Nice.'

Sit down with ds1 who is talking (as children do) about what to eat etc.

Man: (glowers directly at ds1, not looking at me)

Me to ds1: 'We had better move back a seat, we're getting death stares here'

As we get up to move back, man says with air of suppressed rage and affronted entitlement,

'They are not 'death stares', it's just that I've got a right to peace and quiet'

Me: 'is this the quiet coach where talking is banned?' (looking round for signs- it isn't)

(ds1 talking in background)

Man: (in tone of utter contempt) You see? I don't want to have to listen to that.

Me: He's just talking to me. He's four years old.

Man: This is first class where people pay for peace and quiet. It's not a kindergarten.

AIBU to think a) that this bloke should be forced to listen to children playing Power Rangers in shifts for 48 hours?

I am ashamed to say I actually cried for about 30 minutes after this (I did leave the carriage, couldn't bear to have him glowering so vilely at ds1 all the way to Stoke)

OP posts:
LadyMuck · 22/10/2007 12:38

What a knob!

southeastastra · 22/10/2007 12:38

he sounds like a right charmer! tbh i wouldn't have given it a second thought, and would probably have encouraged my children to make as much noise as they wanted.

he could always put on headphones, or drive.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:39

Think I'm more bothered that I burst into tears & let it get to me...

just can't believe grown men will try to bully children like that. Luckily ds1 was oblivious!!

OP posts:
LittleBellaLugosi · 22/10/2007 12:40

What a disgusting man.

I would have stayed in the carriage and played games.

He should travel by car if he can't stand sharing his space with other members of the human race.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:40

Southeast I hope he has the good luck to sit next to you on his next 'important' journey!!

Think you're right and next time I will go on with more of a fighting attitude....

OP posts:
Freckle · 22/10/2007 12:40

If the train company were marketing their first class carriages as areas of "peace and quiet", they wouldn't be selling first class children's or family tickets, would they?

He's a selfish arse.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:41

it's the sense of outraged entitlement to a 'child free' space that I find stunning. There often seem to be letters in the guardian et al expressing similar sentiments- I really hate living in a childhating country...

OP posts:
AnnabelCaramel · 22/10/2007 12:41

Blimey! It was the weekend as well, not like it was a commuter train.

He obviously has issues.

SharpMolarBear · 22/10/2007 12:41

I hope you were replaced by the customary slightly threatening gang of drunks brandishing their special brew

LIZS · 22/10/2007 12:42

Nightmare . Rememebr accidently getting on a aquiet coach with ds in Switrzerland - never again! Also had a similar miserable barsteward on an early evening flight . Dc's adn I were in rear row , no recline or much legroom while dh was across the aisle. Man waited until dh went to the loo before coming back from several rows ahead to tell them to keep as his wife was tired and could n't rest due to their noise. They were only chatting and playing and it wasn't a night flight . I was so angry and upset.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:44

That's another thing that really annoyed/upset me...if I had been a yuppie yelling 'yeah, keep me in the loop right' into my mobile phone I doubt he would have said a word to me...

OK I am going to stop being wet now...

OP posts:
Freckle · 22/10/2007 12:44

And the letters to newspapers ranting about the school run interfering with their journey to work. Like, if you work you have every right to be the only person in a car using the roads, but, if you're on the way to school with a car load of children, you're abusing your car tax.

Some men (and it is usually men) just think they have greater rights than anyone else.

TwigorTreat · 22/10/2007 12:44

well I'm sorry but if I paid for first class and had work to do and someone else's 4 year old was wittering away I too would be livid

the difference is I would be inwardly livid and wouldn't dream of saying anything

but I have to say I don't think it is appropriate to take children in first class carriages because you just know that people have paid the extra so they can have peace and quiet

you have children .. you are hoi polloi .. stop getting ideas above your station

TwigorTreat · 22/10/2007 12:47

actually if I'm honest.. if I ever manage to get time to myself, by someone else having the kids, and I go out and do something else like have a coffee or read a book .. I inevitably end up sitting next to someone reading to their child in a loud and overly dramatic fashion, or chatting to their child in a loud and overly dramatic fashion

am wondering if I tend to be loud and overly dramatic when with my children

although maybe, just in general, other people's kids are just more annoying

Anchovy · 22/10/2007 12:48

TBH, I would have just laughed.

"Man: This is first class where people pay for peace and quiet."

I would have said "No, you pay to travel in different surroundings. You are still at risk of sitting with anyone else who pays to make the same choice."

Someone made a comment about DD in business class in a plane last year. She was 2 and immaculately behaved, (which always helps when you want to take the moral high ground!)
He said, pointedly, "this is Business class you know". I said rather breezily "Oh, I thought it open to anyone who has bought a business class ticket. I don't think it is actually obligatory to do business on the plane".

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:48

I have had a lot of similar experiences on flights but just didn't expect it on a train.

On flights I psych myself up beforehand. But have never actually had direct verbal abuse before- and particularly not directed at a 4 yo.

I did have some vile middle aged couple challenge me righteously for daring to touch their baggage in the overhead compartment as I was struggling to get ds1's nappies out of my own bag.

I want to live in the Mediterranean or somewhere people actually smile at children.

Am wondering whether to write to Virgin to suggest they make it clear that first class (and even, dare I say it, 'quiet coaches') do not provide a licence to abuse children for being children.

OP posts:
Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:49

damn right Twig
I work on trains too and children are annoying, including (especially??) mine. But if they were annoying me I would either a) seethe inwardly or b) move. I don't think I have a right to abuse them or their parents.

OP posts:
AnnabelCaramel · 22/10/2007 12:50

Anchovy - your lo could have been up to some monkey business

Twinkie1 · 22/10/2007 12:51

OOOhhhh I would have started loud rendidtions of the wheels on the bus and 10 green bottles - all with actions and as much noise as I could make!

Shouting - @Come on folks join in' at selected interval!!

morethanmum · 22/10/2007 12:53

He was just rude enough to say what we all think { I hate other peoples kids guring at me on aeroplanes etc, chatting at me in cafes etc when I don't have mine. Never say anything tho, and obv think it's fine when mine do the same to anyone else.
Yesterday, mine got death stares at a pub when they played chase in the garden. Quietly, but fast.
Forget about him.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:53

don't agree with you at all, however, that one 'should know it's not appropriate' to take children into first class.

I had also paid. A lot. I had 2 kids with me and tons of baggage. Cattle class was packed.

I don't think its 'appropriate' to expect parents and children to stand all the way just because more 'important' working people have got their laptops out.

Do you see yourself as more important and entitled as a working person than when you have your kids with you? I certainly don't. Probably the other way round.

OP posts:
WorkingClassScum · 22/10/2007 12:58

Gosh... you should've told him it was PUBLIC transport and if he had issues with that he should get his own limo and driver!

Then you should have given your children a loud lesson in what is rude behaviour and how you would hope they would be more tolerant!

I definitely would've stayed and he could have chosen to move if he wished.

Hulababy · 22/10/2007 12:59

First class is for anyone who has paid for it, regardless of whether they have children with them or not.

If he wanted peace and quiet then he should have found the quiet carriage.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 13:02

right, next journey I am going to go on with full Sarah Connor attitude.

Problem is, you just don't want your lo getting direct abuse in his face. But maybe it'd harden the boy up

OP posts:
stripeymama · 22/10/2007 13:04

I had this on a train over the summer. Late at night so the second class carriages (all two of them) were full of drunks/hen parties etc. I had dd asleep in the buggy so we went and sat in first class, there were about five people there so we weren't in the way or anything.
Anyway it took all of 30 seconds for laptop lady, "Some of us have PAID to sit in here you know".
Ok, I didn't have a first class ticket. But she didn't know that. And my arse was I sitting with a bunch of pissed up yobs with a child with me.

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