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Original poster

'This is first class not a kindergarten' SORRY LONG RANT about train travel...

56 replies

Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 12:35

This happened 2 weeks ago but I'm still stunned/gutted/keep thinking of clever dismissive things I should have said to the git...

Me, dh and the 2 boys (4 and 6m) were getting on a Saturday morning London-Manchester train and decided to go Weekend First. We got on and immediately got that sense of the whole almost full carriage going 'oh no, kids'. Well, we're used to that. Then dh (struggling with pram) said 'why don't you take ds1 into the next carriage, there are more seats there'.

So, took ds1 into carriage. Middle aged man is sitting on first 4 seater table alone typing furiously on laptop.

ds1 asks in his (admittedly piping) voice on entering, 'is this a quiet coach'

Man (scowling directly at him): 'yes it is, so shut it' (or words to that effect, couldn't quite catch it)

Me (stunned) 'Nice.'

Sit down with ds1 who is talking (as children do) about what to eat etc.

Man: (glowers directly at ds1, not looking at me)

Me to ds1: 'We had better move back a seat, we're getting death stares here'

As we get up to move back, man says with air of suppressed rage and affronted entitlement,

'They are not 'death stares', it's just that I've got a right to peace and quiet'

Me: 'is this the quiet coach where talking is banned?' (looking round for signs- it isn't)

(ds1 talking in background)

Man: (in tone of utter contempt) You see? I don't want to have to listen to that.

Me: He's just talking to me. He's four years old.

Man: This is first class where people pay for peace and quiet. It's not a kindergarten.

AIBU to think a) that this bloke should be forced to listen to children playing Power Rangers in shifts for 48 hours?

I am ashamed to say I actually cried for about 30 minutes after this (I did leave the carriage, couldn't bear to have him glowering so vilely at ds1 all the way to Stoke)

OP posts:
themildmanneredaxemurderer · 22/10/2007 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pollyanna · 22/10/2007 13:20

I took my gang to London on the train in the school holidays, standard class, well after commuting time, and got asked to shush by a group of women as soon as we got on.

I'm like you domesticgodless, I bowed to pressure and felt really upset. As long as children aren't badly behaved, the other passengers have no right to complain (I feel equally aggrieved by the constant tap tap tapping of laptops, tinny music from mp3 players and banal mobile phone conversations), but I still have problems standing up to them.

Original poster
Domesticgodless · 22/10/2007 14:32

I didn't leave to please the vile man, just to get ds1 (and myself) away from his vile glowering face.

It's like you have 'second class citizen, please beat me' written on your forehead as soon as you enter public space with kids.

It's the soft target thing as well isn't it. I have never seen a family with a MAN in it receive any verbal about their noisy kids (though no doubt it happens).

And have certainly never seen anyone have a go at the customary gang of beerswilling drunk football fans. Just lots of newspaper rustling.

OP posts:
GooseyLoosey · 22/10/2007 14:48

Its difficult - I spend around 4 hours every day on a train and have at times been driven to distraction by children who screamed for the entire journey. However, in my world there is a difference between:

(a) a young child having fun and talking (usually very loudly) in the way that young children do; and

(b) a young child being a total monster and the parents allowing it.

With (a), if I had a problem it would be entirely mine and I would move if I needed to work. Children should be allowed to be children and not permanently shushed.

With (b), I would want to kill the parents. However, because I am craven and cowardly, I would seethe inwardly instead. I may however smile if someone else takes up the gauntlet.

I would in general agree that we do live in a fairly joyless culture where children are concerned and many more people than would admit subscribe to the children should be seen and not heard philosophy.

iwouldgoouttonight · 22/10/2007 15:23

What a horrible man! Me and DP were discussing this the other day - there does still seem to be a very old fashioned 'children should be seen and not heard' culture in this country. We were always embarrassed if we were out in public and DS would start crying loudly or shouting because we thought everyone would be annoyed with us. Then recently we realised you can't (and shouldn't) stop children being children and now if people have an issue with DS is their problem (obviously within reason - we don't just let him run around uncontrollably!). We were all children once - even the nasty man on your train (unless he arrived on the planet fully grown in his own private jet!)

FranSanDisco · 22/10/2007 15:40

Arse. You paid your fare so he should have moved. I'd like him to meet ds 5 yo who NEVER STOPS TALKING IN A SHOUTY VOICE NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES HE'S REMINDED He also can do a good death stare himself - bring it on

Scotia · 22/10/2007 15:45

What a pig of a man.

I would have done the same as you, and skulked away to have a cry. Then I would have been so angry at myself for letting him upset me like that. I would have liked to have the courage to say to him it was public transport, that I had paid a lot of money for our day out, and that it is not an office, so STFU.

If your dh was in the next coach, you could have sent him back to the same seats with your ds1 while you stayed with the baby. I guarantee you he would not have been quite so brave then.

He is nothing but an arrogant bully, you and your son did nothing wrong.

LittleBellaLugosi · 22/10/2007 17:48

Very, very good point domesticgodless.

I very muhc doubt if men ever get bullied in this situation. It is surely always women who get this sort of bullying shit. This isn 't just about child-hating, it's about bullying women and children isn't it? Or am I wrong, do men get constant harrassment and hassle when they're out and about with their children?

And then they wonder why we refuse to get out of our cars...

RoyKinnear · 22/10/2007 17:51

what a vile creature
may his one child bear triplets then desert them on his doorstep as punishment

miobombino · 22/10/2007 22:45

I'd have asked him where his Lear jet was, and say I was sorry it was out of commission making him mingle with OTHER PEOPLE INCLUDING CHILDREN. miserable git.

bookwormmum · 22/10/2007 23:07

He's probably infertile and bitter and twisted over it. Or jealous that you can afford to travel in First with nippers.

WideWebWitch · 22/10/2007 23:31

What a VILE man. And what horrible behaviour, no wonder you felt upset, I would have done too. I think in these situations it's best (if you can do it) to hold your head up high, give him your snottiest filthiest look, sneer and say something like "Gosh, what absolutely horrible manners you have"

Twig, surely you're not serious?

WideWebWitch · 22/10/2007 23:33

Twig, you said "but I have to say I don't think it is appropriate to take children in first class carriages because you just know that people have paid the extra so they can have peace and quiet" Do you REALLY think this? I think there aren't rules that say if you pay more you can demand who and who is not allowed to also pay more and join you. This was a weekend too.

TotalChaos · 22/10/2007 23:44

Miserable f*cker. On the rare times I use them, I find Virgin trains generally a very un young child friendly environment (except for the time that the lovely buffet wagon lady thought I couldn't afford a drink for DS so brought us 2 free little bottles of mineral water .

Hekate · 22/10/2007 23:49

Well, I'd have sung Wheels on The Bus at the top of my voice for the rest of the journey.

but I'm a bitch.

Tortington · 22/10/2007 23:52

Get a 4x4 you tart!

TwigorTreat · 23/10/2007 13:28

WWW I don't think I have a god-given right to disturb other people just because my children are children and I can afford to be there tbh

but then I have rather a low tolerance for noise in general (though can block out child-related easily due to being a SAHM) .. and so can easily appreciate the total annoyance level of a bunch of mickey mouse, helium fuelled sprites

WideWebWitch · 23/10/2007 13:35

But Twig, her ds wasn't being annoying, he was just talking! So yes, he does have a right to do so imo.

WideWebWitch · 23/10/2007 13:36

and so the mere presence of children is 'disturbing' people now is it? How depressing that people think this way.

bookwormmum · 23/10/2007 13:39

Lots of adults in trains disrespect the 'quiet zones' by chatting on phones and generally being people, eating, drinking, texting or tapping on a laptop. Why should we expect children to be silent? I quite enjoy hearing a parent reading with their children - they're interacting with them and most of us have been there, reading aloud to children in public. I don't understand how people think children will learn how to behave socially unless they're allowed to mingle with adults as they grow up. If I saw an 'adults-only' carriage on trains I would probably avoid it like the plague . It's not like being crammed in on a low-cost airline where you have to sit there for x number of hours.

TwigorTreat · 23/10/2007 13:42

well we can continue to be disingenous but I've yet to meet a 4 year old with volume and quantity control ..

it is a fairly common assumption that the UK is not the most child-accepting place particularly with regards to areas where children are not expected to be .. first class carriage, restaurants after 8pm etc

and I do get more farked orf with adults who don't have volume control and would love to same something to them but as with children I wouldn't

Iklboo · 23/10/2007 13:44

I'd have asked him exactly where it says he has a right to peace and quiet. If he was so pissed off why didn't HE move instead of trying to bully you out of your paid for seats? Plus it was a Saturday, not a work day.
I'd have told him to go and suck his own c*ck if he could manage to find it.
You don't pay for peace & quiet in first class - it's not a guarantee of the ticket. You pay for extra leg room and trolley service. Twunt

bookwormmum · 23/10/2007 14:14

You don't get trolley service on Virgin at weekends - it's shanks' pony to the buffet for your free tea or coffe and biscuit! . The extra leg-room is nice though.

puppydavies · 23/10/2007 14:55

i have no problem at all with other people's kids on trains, unless they're actually interfering with other passengers - talking/playing/singing etc fine by me. is what i'd expect from PUBLIC transport and for anyone to expect otherwise is ridiculous.

virgin do have a ridiculous reservation system though. EVERY time i book tickets on virgin trains, buying adult and CHILD tickets, using a FAMILY railcard they reserve us seats in the quiet carriage way to encourage tolerance from other passengers

OrmIrian · 23/10/2007 15:01

"it's just that I've got a right to peace and quiet' "

Ehh? How does he work that one out? If it's true, I want peace and quiet too! In fact I demand my rights.

Ar*ehole!

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