So, how important do you think your relationship is compared to the importance of your children? And what percentage effort do you expend on each do you think?

[WideWebWitch]

Following on from this thread (about leaving a small baby to go away with husband), where we started talking about parents needs compared to childrens needs, I'm interested to know how important people think parents needs are.

What priority do you and your partner/husband/wife give to your relationship compared to that you give your children? Can you put a percentage on it in terms of time/effort?

And when you think about the time you spend with and on your children as opposed to with your partner do you think you've got it about right or do you wish you had more time to spend with your husband/partner/wife (if you're a bloke)? Or do you wish you had more time with your children?

I agree with WWW. The effect on my children of an unhappy marriage would surely negate all that extra attention I gave them at the expense of DH.

Haven't always realised that for sure, but working on it now .

Tbh I don't think dh and I miss the whole childfree-nights-out thing atm. We have never left ds (2.3yo) alone with anyone apart from each other - possibly due to circumstances rather than design, but also have never necessarily felt the need. What we do miss is family time, I think - we tend to shift-parent to quite a degree. We went through a very, very difficult patch when ds was 7-8 months or so (probably more to do with delayed reaction to the shellshock that is a first baby), and things have been bumpy on a more superficial level recently, but in many ways I think these years, with the stresses and strains of small children (no. 2 is imminent), are adding to and deepening our relationship without us really noticing it - we are learning more and more about each other. I'm wondering whether part of this is to do with the fact that dh has always been very, very involved with ds - was a sahd for 1.5 years and I think overall, if you overlook breastfeeding, we have always shared care 50/50.

Sex is infrequent but has actually got continually better since we got together almost 10 years ago.

it's a real balancing act.i am struggling with this right now, our three kids have autism so have a lot of needs. they have always come first. However since Steve became ill we know he is going to die and probably within a year.
my focus has changed and i am pretty much torn most of the time. things will be better once the kids are back to school.

I don't think being dedicated to your relationship means you have to have childfree nights out. It's about respecting each other and each other's time. It's about how you spend the time you do have together, including when you're with the kids.

We also don't have family support - my parents live thousands of miles away and DH's are in ill health.

But we soon look forward to just spending evenings together as a couple.

I remember my folks always kissing, holding hands, cuddling. My dad would compliment my mum often, and vice versa.

They would bring each other a cup of coffee.

It doesn't have to be big stuff.

You really do need to make time for sex and intimacy, however, IMO.

It's an expression of life, IMO.

TBH I'm not terribly bothered about My Relationship. I do, as it happens, love and like my partner, who is also the father of my children: but nope, don't put a lot of energy into The Relationship. Which may or may not be a good thing.

BUT I also think, you know, that we tend to reify The Relationship and give it a disproportionate priority above the other relationships and loves and friendships in our lives. There seem to be an awful lot of MNers who don't have those friendships. My own have taken a severe knocking with the arrival of my children - and my friends, who have no emotional investment in my kids, are far more likely to piss off than their father.

I think that's a good point, expat. You don't have to have time away together (lack of family/babysitters/money make it impossible for many of us) but you can still invest in your marriage.

Which reminds me - I should get off MN!!

I agree it's important to put effort into other relationships too: I have RL friends, mn friends, work friends, old friends. But I probably put more effort into my relationship with dh than I do with my friends, many of whom I've known 20+ years - I genuinely don't think they'll piss off if we don't see each other for months at a time. They understand, they're as busy as I am.

Well, it's certainly true that I put my marriage above my relationships with my friends. And that those relationships really have suffered since I had chilren.

A kick up the pants from MI there - I shall give that a bit if thought. Thanks!

You know, I've just re-read this thread and think I must just be very different from pretty well everyone else on MN. Can't imagine investing all that time and energy in one other person, to be honest. And I don't think about The Relationship separate from DP, the fallible and often infuriating person. It's nice to spend time with him, I've realised when we have, finally, had the time/energy to go out for the odd evening together - but it's not some kind of Mystic Force which animates my entire being, or anything.

I'm far, far more aware that if I fuck up my relationship with my kids they'll do what I did: leave home and not talk to me again.

you're right, expat, about the little acts of thoughtfulness. dh and I have always been like this.

My kids spend half their time with me and half with their dad. I put a lot of effort into my friendship relationships and also my dp. I'm in a long distance relationship but once we're living together I'll put a lot of effort into keeping it good. Kids grow and leave us and to be honest their peers become more important than us before that. I take them places and have fun with them. As long as you love and care for them then they don't suffer if you're a tad selfish. I don't go out drinking much though but I like time away. My boys are very happy and confident so I must be doing something right?

I've been with dh for 21 yrs and on;y had dd1 5 yrs ago. Up until then we were exceedingly happy and I was worried that I would feel jealous of dh's love for our child, which I think my mum did with me and my dad. I was determined taht dh and I would do the same things as before parenthood. What I hadn't anticipated was that hormones, or pnd or whatever would make me so overwhelmingly in love with dd1 that I didn't have anything left for dh. By the time I had dd2 I really didn't care if he was here or not. He did try to tell me how he felt but I ignored him, he started drinking, we had ds. We had a lot of problems around that time (including dh thinking dd2 was dying in his arms the day after ds was born) and dh dealt with it by regressing to his adolescence whilst I shut myself away. By the time I realised what a mess we were in it was almost too late. Dh works at home and would say that he was with me during the day so what happened at night was up to him. Eventually I nearly left him. Fortunately both of us have come to our senses, he doesn't drink and we are trying to work things out. I can't believe how close the pair of us came to screwing up our kids' lives with our stupidity. It isn't easy, we have three aged 5 and under and no babysitters for support, plus we have both built separate lives and find it hard to go back to how we used to be in each other's company. Looking back I wish I'd acted differently but I truly wasn't aware of what I was creating. It is my dcs that are driving me on to making a decent future with dh and getting back to how we used to be - I even have photos of the two of us pre-dcs on display in our bedroom as a morale boost for when I get downheartened.

Thanks for this thread, it's very cathartic!

'I think your relationship (if you're in one) should come first and I think its a healthy model to show your kids.

Everything flows from the parent unit - its a team thing'

I couldn't agree more.

expat is right is not all about going away, it's mostly being a respectful and loving unit which your kids see and feel everyday. But sometimes the evreyday stuff needs to be spiced up by making an effort. whether this is to dress up for an evening and not be on MN or save for a weekend away it not important. it's just so easy to relax into a 'mummy and daddy' role (mainly due to lack of time, resources, sleep and money).

expact what your father said about his marriage is wonderful: that's how it should be - I believe in the parents being a united front.

To some extent everyone's needs come behind ds1's. Not because they're less important but because if ds1's needs aren't being met then everyone else suffers and the entire household breaks down. So he goes off to respite and we try to meet the needs of the other 2. It's not an easy balance.

So at the moment the children come first, although my Mum does babysit and we do get to go away sometimes for overnights, which helps. DS2 and ds3 do need their own space and own interests though and to be able to do what they want sometimes, but meetng their needs often means that one of us (or both of us) has to put aside ours. We'll always have a dependent in the form of ds1 though, so I don't think it will ever be just 'us' ever again. We'll work something out so that we can get our time away. But basically we're always going to have the equivalent of a baby/toddler in terms of care needs. In some ways it's an extra shared thing so it makes the relationship stonger. It's getting time to myself that is harder to organise (and often needed).

Oh I completley agree, it's not about going away, it's about what priority/effort you put into your relationship/s vs your children.

First priority = me
Second priority = my partner and our relationship
Third priority = my daughter

I still don't see how one separates The Relationship from the person with whom one is in a relationship. I mean, I do as it happens do the giving a kiss or offering a drink stuff to my partner, but I don't think of that as Working On My Relationship, I just consider it something that I should probably make an effort to do to someone who shares my domestic space and a large part of my emotional life.

I think I matter as much my children. But that means sharing a lot of 'me' - the amount that is left from the predatory (good one that) demands of my kids out in different areas. I have work that I like and am committed to and that means a lot to me. I have other friends. I have stuff I want to do - whether that's writing my own fiction, or going swimming, or spending time just vegging out. And yes, in all that it's nice to spend some time with my partner - but not all of it. (He'd go barking if expected to spend all his time with me, too.)

i dont really see them as conflicting priorities tbh.

think if my relationship was such that i did, my kids would 'win'.

but really, atm, we are a family. we all have needs and a right to fulfil them.

I'm identifying very much with MI on this thread.

timewise of course DD wins, she also need a lot more care and attention than DH due as she is unable to fetch for herself, and that's obvious. In these terms of course she comes first and I and DH, equally, come last (after the dog, the cat and the goldfish!!).

However because of that I need to create bubbles of time in my life where I am spared such 'duties' and can easiliy relax and fulfill different needs: talking to eachother without interruption or shouting over the teletubbies, looking at each other in the eye, shopping in peace, read a book etc

of course taken singlehanded non of this things are more important than DD but surely I can fit loads of things in it without having to think that I am depriving her of something.

it also reminds me not as much of the man I fell in love with but more of the girl I used to be.

with hindsight (the clue is in my name) I would have done things very differently. We became mum and dad and forgot about the man/woman bit. We worked side by side and rarely together.

We may have ended up apart anyway as we did grow apart but it may have been smoother and later than it was

Given my time again, my partner/husband would be much higher up on the scale and the children lower. They would still have been loved and cared for, but I wouldn't have let the intimacy go away (not just sex, the holding hands, time alone intimacy) I wouldn't have made my children 100% no1's, nor listened to what others felt and act like I thought I should be acting.

Our life runs like this:

Both DH and I work full time. DD is with a CM. I am back at home with her by half four, DH gets back around half six. DD goes to bed at seven.

On Monday's we have a "whatever" night - DH can go on his X-Box, I'll be on the laptop etc etc. Tuesday after she goes to bed, he goes to his friends house, I am at home studying. Wednesday after she is in bed we sit and watch a film. Thursday is a "whatever" night (I study). Friday we watch a film. Saturday's is family day, unless my mum is on day off (1 in every 3) when she will take DD out for a few hours, DH and I go out for a meal / to the cinema etc. Saturday evening is at my parents house, tea, see my sisters etc etc. Sunday is our family day, we have the shopping delivered, we go swimming, go to the park etc etc. Sunday evening when DD is in bed, DH and I watch a film.

I feel we have the balance right at the moment.

divorcee that is what happened to my parents. and I could feel that (not as a child but as a teenagers). i never remember my parents doing anything together by themselves and it's wrong.

really to me expat's father said it right and square! I am going to make that my mantra because let's face it the love for you children is there in front of everything else at all times - it's other loves that you need to keep alight.

divorcee sorry to hear that btw, did not mean to sound harsh in any way. just typing quickly before DH and I go out ALONE for a few seconds while DB babysits..