my marriage plans are upsetting everyone it seems...

[Enid]

I'm having a crap evening. My parents came down to visit yesterday and I asked them if they could give me some money towards a wedding for dp and I (they are paying for my sisters wedding in June). They agreed but very reluctantly even though I said I wouldn't want as much as my sister is getting and it wouldn't be for a while, trying to take the burden off. So anyway, they agreed, which was kind, but not a word of happiness or congratulation. Then my sister rang tonight, very peeved that I was thinking of getting married too and worried that it would be before hers etc etc. Then dp told me that he didn't realise that I was so serious about getting married (err.. despite being together for 8 years, having one daughter and one on the way, and me saying repeatedly 'I really want to get married' for the last few months)and that he was feeling pressured and stressed about it.

I feel like an idiot now, I thought it would be a really nice thing to do and it just seems that everyone closest to me thinks its a really stupid idea. So obviously I am feeling very sorry for myself. All I've done is try and borrow a bit of money so that marriage could become a possibility, its not like I've set a date or even thought about when or where.

Both my parents and my sister asked why I wanted to get married, I said because I'll have 2 children and I feel strongly about it now. They both (independently) said 'oh, what an old-fashioned viewpoint'. Despite the fact that my parents are married, and my sister is getting married this year and is definite that she wants to get married before she has children.

I feel as though I've spoilt something before its even started

OOooooh Enid you lucky lucky girl!

Oh sobernow, I know those rows they are horrible. Do you know whether the change in the law for gay couples (new white paper announced in Guardian today) will affect heterosexual couples co-habiting as well? There seemed no mention of it, but it seemed that gay couples will be able just to sign a registry and receive same rights as married couples...sounds good if the same goes for living together non-gay couples too.

the today programme this morning said the new rules for gay partnerships will not affect hetero unmarried couples. sorry.

WHY!!! Thats not fair

Ah. Not great then. Much sympathy and IKWYM about unproductive rows but I think you did very well to keep your mouth shut for so long. I know I wouldn't have managed it. Obviously, you'd get the children and as long as your name's on the house deeds then I suppose all you can do is wait and see. Thanks for telling us, although I am sorry it's not better news. Men eh? Can't live with 'em etc.

the reason given on the programme was that heterosexual co-habiting couples have the option of marriage if they want state recognition of their relationship, together with a formalisation of the rights and responsibilities associated with the relationship. whereas gay couples up to now have had nothing...

look, i really, really don't want to start a fight but why is it not fair?

I agree bossykate, gay couples both have to agree to register anyway if they want these rights conferred so it's no different to straight couples both agreeing to marriage.

And you don't have to have the big gesture marriage, if all you want to do is confer rights on each other just go to the reg office and find a couple of witnesses on the street. Should in fact make it easier to do that now, if interfering family complain that you aren't having a big wedding you can say that you are just conferring rights.

Thought de facto partners now had rights????

IKWYM bossykate, and I understand that straight couples have the marriage option, but some couples feel uneasy with the whole idea of marriage (being the traditional, patriarchial set up that it is) and having a 'new' system where they can be legally recognised as partners but still continue living together without actually being 'married' would be very welcome.

de facto or so-called 'common law' partners have no rights, it is a myth. You can apply for a Parental Responsibility agreement that gives partners more rights over their children. This is what we would have done had we not decided to get married.

oh i see, have your cake and eat it too!

ok it's traditional, but modern marriage isn't patriarchal - partners have equal rights.

in fact marriage protects women as the comments made on this thread illustrate...

Interesting discussion. On the one hand I can see that since heterosexual couples do have the option of marriage if they truly want to commit to each other this is a good reason for legally making cohabitation and marriage (for heteros) legally different. It's not that marriage is necessarily better but atm it is (legally and, some would argue, emotionally) different. And surely, that's right in a way? Otherwise, why bother with the existence of marriage at all? (I know many would say yes, why bother?) However, I do completely see that if you're a SAHM and not married, the fact that you have no legal rights or recognition of your contribution to the relationship or children should you split up puts the SAH partner (of either sex) in an unfair and unequal position. Were I in Sobernow's position I'd be pi*sed off with my dp too since it would feel as if he thought he was the one with something to lose and I would be the one at a disadvantage, emotionally and (potentially) financially should we split up.

sorry for using legally 10000 times in one post!

Sobernow - your partner sounds very much like mine. In fact we went to a wedding on saturday and he told all my relatives he had to intention of marrying me. We've been together about 11 years and have 3 kids but I'm obviously not good enough for that final commitment.

I want to get married as I know it will give me more rights and some protection. He knows this as well and I think that's why he refuses to take the final step. Things are much easier for him if I don't have any rights. Bloody men!

(Sorry, I'm not assuming that these are your partners reasons for not wanting to get married, just sympathising).

www, but can we expect the state to legislate for every relationship? could there be other ways to give more security to co-habiting sah parents without creating a parallel institution to marriage?

it just seems crazy to me to invent another formula which is marriage in all but name. also, both parties would need to consent to it, so it wouldn't help sobernow or angiel.

maybe beefing up the child support agency would be better and legislating that the support should include maintenance for the mothers as well as support for the children.