Church

[crystaltips]

How many of you are avid church-goers?
How many of you want to go to church but never seem to have enough hours in the day?
I feel a great draw to our church - but with a young family it's a toss-up between making an appearance and a couple of extra hours in bed

Whenever I DO go I always get a kind welcome - and a few "welcome back" comments.

Is it enough to think kind, spiritual and "christian" thoughts ?

lol lillibet!
i used to be regular as clockwork to church but since the move i cant get into my new parish or the new priest, i think we might start going sat night 6pm and see if i feel any different. i need to do something!

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bloss - I was visiting my brothers church in Hammersmith when I took ds to the creche. He was about 4mths then. 'Crawling or non crawling?' said the kind lady - They had 2 creches, plus classes for everyone else. Each non crawler had a little mat, toys etc and a label to stick on them - I was VERY impressed. At my church all the kids go up and help themselves to maracas, shaky things, tamborines etc. during the worship section and play along - not always melodiously. We also have a large carpeted area off to one side so ds (9 mths) crawls around there most of the time, or sits on the projectionists lap, or whatever! He loves the singing, and stands on the back of the chair in frint singing along, in his own special (or should it be special needs?) way.....

I wish our church service started a bit earlier. It's not till 10.45 am so the kids are tired and hungry by the end.

For me the problem with church is that I get so distracted by the children asking for drinks, biscuits, visits to the loo, etc, that sometimes I feel it would be just as beneficial to all concerned to stay at home. Still, they do go into the creche for the last half of the service.

Family services are always a nightmare as the kids always want to go and play in the creche instead.

The best services are those when we have a baptism as the kids really enjoy them. We go to a Baptist church so they involve lots of water! The kids then baptise dolls in the bath when they get home.

Dd loves singing and she makes up her own words to the songs. Some of them are hilarious. Wish I could remember them.

Well, we managed to miss church again! Dd woke in the early hours and it took ages to go off to sleep again. Bizarrely I dreamed that we actually got up and I fed ddand we just had enough time to get there...and then I woke up to find dd and I still cuddled up in bed and that the service had already started! Am feeling very cross with myself because I really wanted to go this week.

We had a lovely baptism this morning of a baby who has been attending our church regularly with their parents. I always find baptisms very moving. We haven't had dd baptised yet as we are finding it difficult to find committed christians of youngish age to be godparents. Wondered if anyone else took this role of godparents seriously and how they chose godparents.

Mog, I agree entirely re. godparents. We decided not to ask any of our younger relatives (they're all heathens!) and instead asked one of dh's friends who, although not a regular church-goer, is a Catholic and who also is very good with children; a new-ish friend of mine who has just started coming to church regularly and whose dd plays with ours; and a very good friend of mine who is very thoughtful on religious matters - she is in her 50's but this doesn't bother us and our priest said that age shouldn't matter if we felt that someone was right for dd. At the end of the day it's best to find someone that you feel will take being a godparent in the way that you want. Could you have a word with your priest about this? We did and found his guidance invaluable. I hope that you will find someone soon.

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At our church children who have been baptised but not confirmed take communion. I also took communion as an adult before my confirmation (I was baptised as a baby) but I have a friend who was adamant that her first communion was to be on her confirmation day. If you haven't been baptised and your vicar is happy for you to receive communion, and you would like to do so, then I would - it's very powerful. If you feel uncomfortable (take no notice of anyone else) then you can go to the altar for a blessing. I hope that you don't mind my asking but is there any reason why you do not want to be baptised? God sees what is in your heart, if you feel that you want to take communion for love of him then do so. HTH

Godparents are not a requirment of baptism, or you can choose to be your own child's godparents, as DH and I are to our eldest child. We didn't have anyone else to ask, at the time, and the vicar suggested we became the godparents.

Oops, my last post was not exactly encouraging was it? Went to church yesterday and it was good so take no notice of me being negative.

Robinw, communion is for all believers, not just those who have signed up to a particular church. It is for the followers of Jesus to remember his death and to share in his life.

I think most churches have an "open table" which means that communion is available to all who believe.

I knew that you didn't need Godparents but I didn't know that you could be yourself!

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Robinw, I was quite surprised at your vicar saying that those seeking Jesus are welcome to share in the Communion, because as Xausted said, it's for believers in Christ. It's a reminder of Christ's suffering, death and resurrection for us and of his return.

Even as a Christian I sometimes let the bread and wine pass by, because we are supposed to examine our hearts and lives to make sure everything right with God before partaking - sometimes I feel miles away from God if dh and I have had an argument or I've been shouting at ds, and use the Communion time to ask for forgiveness (probably 50% of the time!).

Our vicar has a set phrase that he says every sunday before communion, that confirmed members of all churches are welcome to come for communion and all others are welcome to come for a blessing but should carry a book with them to make their intentions known.

Our vicar sadly announced his early retirement last week. He has been ill for months so it was no real surprise but it is unlikely that he will be replaced due to shortage of vicars and funds. I think committed members of the congregation will take most of the services and perhaps have visiting clergy for special services. The Bishop did warn us about this when he visited earlier this year but we didn't expect it to happen so quickly. Our vicar had 2 parishes anyway so a large area will now be without a vicar which seems a shame to me. A good vicar is more than somebody who gives a sermon every Sunday.

Robin, if you have been baptised into the C of E then you are a member of the Christian church in a broad sense - you can't be 'unbaptised' even if your beliefs change. I understand where you are coming from on the bible - I believe in its message and I think that there is something to be learned from some of the passages that are clearly allegory (e.g. The Creation) but I don't believe it to be infallible. I've found formal study of the boible very useful in helping me to understand why certain people say what they do and although it's challenging it's strengthened rather than weakened my belief.

Jodee, I really admire you for your honesty in how you take Communion. I find it such an amazing experience. Once at Bible Study we gave each other Communion which was very humbling.

PamT, how sad for you. Our priest is responsible fora benefice of four parishes and works so hard, he takes four services evry Sunday and says that's his quietest day! Lots of the villages round here no longer have their own priest, it's very sad.

Sorry, I have no idea what's happened to my typing!

Ionesmum, we've sometimes served each other with the bread and wine, and you are right about the feeling of humility.

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Robin, if you are interested I think that you would find studying the N.T. really helpful. I, too, have massive problems with much of Paul, I like much of his message - such as his words on love in Colossians - but there can be little doubt that some of what he says is mysoginistic and homophobic. But as my priest says, God often works through flawed people - many of the greatest saints also had their faults. There are many different ideas as to why Paul's message is as it is - perhaps he knew that he was rocking the boat and decided that the promotion of women would just be too much, or perhaps his words have been consistently mis-interpreted. Or perhaps I have got this all wrong and should take them literally?

With regards to the Gospels, Mark is the earliest and simplest. Matthew was a Jew writing for Jews hence the Messianic message in his Gospel. Luke was a Gentile hence the universal salvation in both of his books, Luke and Acts. John comes from a different tradition; it was thought for a long time to have been later but some scholars now believe it could be as early as Mark.

With regards to Communion, I agree that it should be for everyone - sorry if I didn't make that clear. I had Communion before my confirmation but I know that some people prefer to wait. I should think that for those who are seeking to get close to Jesus it might be a way of doing just that. I also don't think that you have to have been well-behaved to take Communion - I see it as a part of reconciling myself to God despite my sinfulness - if I waited until I was worthy I'd never recieve it! But I do admire Jodee's honesty and the most important thing is that we find ways of worshipping that are comfortable to us. I feel very sorry that your vicar is moving on, congregations can sometimes be very spiteful, it's quite astonishing. Our priest (I'm C of E) has met with much hostility from the 'but we don't do it like that' brigade. Fortunately he's a remarkable man and the vast majority of his flock love him, and he is drawing lots of new people in, particularly families. But he had to be really firm when he first came.

we live with one or two others (depending) in our home and once s month have a house meal. Short celtic liturgy, followed by meal, 'how's everyone getting on' sort of chat than we give each other communion - I find it very useful to make the household more christ centred, as day to day stuff so easily gets in the way.

Wow, manna. I'd love to hear more about this. I've often wondered how to make our home more Christ-centred; we do not have the space to offer a room to a fellow Christian and I don't think dh would be really comfortable with a meal involving Communion. I do make sure that every room in the house has something to remind me to think of God in it, but I would like to make the ordinary day more aware of him.

Oh, and the piece from Paul that I like is from Corinthians (1Corinthians 13 v 4-7), not Colossians. (Don't know where I got that from!)

Robinw, to clarify, I also agree with Ionesmum that Communion shouldn't just be for members or those confirmed. I attend a Baptist church so I don't know much about confirmation, and we have membership but all it really means is you are entitled to vote in the business meetings. All are welcome to the services, believers or non-believers (especially non-believers, I wouldn't want to belong to any kind of church that didn't welcome one and all), and whilst I feel a non-Christian shouldn't actually partake of the bread and wine, I feel that observing communion is actually a great witness to them, and maybe they could feel a closeness to God that they didn't feel was present during the main service.

With respect to Judas, I think there is some debate as to whether he actually took the bread and wine - some believe he only dipped his hand in the bowl - then Satan entered him (John 13v27). But whether he did or he didn't, my personal view is because of what is represented it is too important to be taken lightly, so that is why I abstain sometimes. I will never be a perfect Christian and I know God loves me despite this, but on days when I have felt particularly distant from God I just don't feel I can focus on the true meaning of the Communion if I am still feeling resentment towards someone who I felt badly treated me earlier in the week, for example. I should be forgiving that person before I take the bread and wine. But that's just how I see it personally!

It's a shame your vicar is moving on - there is always a minority within a church who just don't like change (our church too) and it's such a pity when rifts happen.

I think that we have introduced confirmation etc. to formalise religion - of course, the apostles were Jewish, but they were the original recipients of the last supper (which is the Jewish passover meal). I think the idea that you shouldn't partake if you have not been a good Christian recently is totally against the teaching of the church - God is a forgiving god, and we don't need to be perfect to be close to him. If you don't feel comfortable taking communion, most churches will give you a blessing instead.

Jodee - of course I didn't mean that you should take communion whatever - I've just reread your last post, and of course it is up to you on each occasion - I meant really that people shouldn't feel prohibited from taking communion. Does that make sense? I hope you don't think I was telling you how you should feel about it.