Dr Winston programme

[emilys]

Was anyone else left feeling like an inadequate mum who has already caused irreperable damage to their young children after last nights programme?!

I can understand what they were getting at but who can honestly say that they are the happy fun mum 24/7? With the pressures of living in today's world - financial, work,babies etc. it is very hard to make time to do all the things you would like to do with your children. I think the only way you can possibly strive to be this perfect being is by not working, having a cleaner and having a bit of part time child care so that you have time to yourself to make you this happy content, fun person, who can then play all day - very few of us can afford this luxury!

I do take the point however, that small changes in behaviour can make a significant difference which was highlighted when the single mum (of 2) was playing with her daughter towards the end. I found this case very sad and felt sorry for her.

This morning when i kissed my ds (2 1/2yrs) he pointed to the door and said 'mummy - go to work' - i wondered if in Dr W's book this would be 'worrying behaviour' - i would love to stay at home and play all day - it's just not reality. DH says i'm being paranoid!!!

emilys

You aren't being paranoid.

DW and I watched that programme last night and were determined not to let her childhood problems cause any trouble with our DD.

Luckily it doesn't seemed to have as she is always smiling when walk into her room of a morning and the smiles she gives me when I get home could melt the coldest of hearts, so I'm not too worried.

I do worry that I'm not around often enough during the day when she is active but try to make up for it whenever I can.

I do agree though that the idea of a happy home with one parent always there and everything being able to be paid for by one parent working in this day and age is very unreasonable. I'd love to earn enough so that DW never has to work and that we had no money worries but it seems like that is not likely to happen (unless my numbers come up on the lottery).

I haven't watched last night's programme yet but found the programmes from last year very interesting. There was one bit where children were left in a room without their parents and one of the children never even noticed that mummy had gone because the mother hadn't really played with or given much positive attention towards that child. It is quite worrying because we all go through bad patches where we find parenting really difficult and can't be as attentive or patient as we would like, what damage are we inflicting on our little ones during these stages? Being a parent is such a responsibility.

See my comments on other thread...I find this programme very disappointing and completely unscientific. The 'experiments' are random and trivial - there were other children in the survey with an absent father etc but no attempt was made to see if they had suffered in the same way. The ds of the mum who had been sterilised was as rejecting of his mother as the other dd featured, but no attempt was made to encourage them to bond. Why?

Dh and I watched last night with great interest and we felt v confident by the end that despite the fact that we both work full-time, and dh's job often involves evenings and weekends, that we have a very happy, secure ds. I think it can be as much about quality as quantity so I'm sure, emilys, that you're doing a great job. The part that left me unsettled was about memories of childhood and the propsensity for happy/sad memories. I could think of 5 sad ones very easily and they all related to childhood punishments/fear of parents: it's made me think a lot about my childhood and now I can't decide what's real and what's exaggerated (dh thinks those particular memories stand about because they were so aberrant and unusual rather than a sad childhood). I don't think that I was an unhappy child but it's just that I seem to lack positive memories of my parents. I guess a lot is because over the last couple of years things have come out about my dad which are deepy unpleasant, have been ongoing in secret for 10s of years and now I don't feel like I really know either of them. It's all very weird and I'm sure that I think & evaluate much more now that I am a parent. However, it doesn't seem to be affecting ds and that's the main thing!

Didn't watch the programme, but picking up on something PamT said about it - when I leave a room with my children in it (age 8 and 3) they often never notice I've gone, and are happy alone together. Thank goodness they are independent enough not to crave mummy time 24/7. I think theirs is a healthy attitude - and how would I clean the bedrooms otherwise?

Wow I really must be Mrs optimist - I came away from that programme thinking "Great, positive attention really works, I'll have a happy dd". Obviously there'll be some bad times and sometimes she'll have another carer, but I didn't think the programme particularly suggested there shouldn't be.

I really felt for that single mother too and I was so pleased they sent in a play-therapist. Enid I think the point was that this particular couple had had a very very antagonistic break-up, not particularly that the child didn't see her dad much. And surely you're being a little hard on the programme - some experiments were unscientific, but you couldn't really make them so, and that doesn't make them uninteresting.

I loved it!

PS tigermoth - the leaving your child thing was when they are 1 year old, not older. You're right, it is healthy for older kids to be more independent.

Yes the bit where the kids were left on their own was done at the 12 months stage where babies are usually really clingy and would be really unsure of a strange place. It wasn't necessarily a crying for mummy thing, just their reactions - whether they looked around to see where she had gone or if they were oblivious. Can't wait to get an hour with the video now.

i am absolutely confoident that my DS is happy - he's always smiling and laughing, eats well, sleeps well and plays well. My problem was just that the programme made you feel that they tap in to every 'glitch' and to be a prefect / fun parent is an unfair and unrealistic expectation to make on parent.

I didn't see the programme but aren't we all products of imperfect parents? And most of us are not THAT bad!!

I was interested in the programme and found the 'false memory' bit fascinating. I was particularly interested that the woman who had an unhappy childhood could manufacture unhappy memories. Maybe that might liberate her to see that she could influence her memories and perhaps it wasn't all as bad as she has come to believe??? And I say this as someone who didn't have an altogether happy childhood due to extremely acrimonious and drawn out divorce. I felt desperate for the poor single parent to get some family therapy/advice etc on coping with her daughter and building a relationship. She seemed completely swamped by parenthood, and I could see why. I missed the end so glad to hear she was finally being helped. Maybe that way the show will help her sad little daughter, who I felt so sorry for.

Tinker - what are you saying about my parents?!!

I found it both reassuring and worrying.

Reassuring in that it confirmed that ds (who is also a 2000 baby) is a happy, sociable child who seems to be developing well (even if he doesn't talk as much as other kids his age!).

Worrying in that: did we damage him by leaving him to cry when he was young (but then, it was never that often, and he was an excellent sleeper from very early on), is he really learning 2-3 major new things a day - and especially - are we stimulating him enough?! I'm NOT a natural "baby/toddler" mum and am more than happy when he entertains himself. I do make an effort for short periods (which is why I am happy working full time) - but doing "toddler" things doesn't come naturally.

On balance, I am reassured - not so much by the programme as by my own instincts and common sense. My Mum tells me she found it difficult when db and I were young, and as we're very similar in character, I take solace in the fact that we have a really good relationship and she (and dad!) did (in my view) an excellent job in bringing us up! (That's not to say we didn't have our challenges in my teens!). So, if she could do it, I can do it!

Dh made the comment early on in the programme that he hoped it wouldn't just be observational - ie if someone was making a codswallop of it, they would just stand by and watch - so it was nice to see, later on, them giving some help to the single mum.

It made me laugh when they did the experiment with the kids making the rattle. 'Just over half copied and made the rattle as demonstrated...' etc. Err..doesn't that mean that just under half didn't? So what does that prove?

I don't think Dr W was saying that all mothers should stay at home and be completely attentive to their children 24/7. I felt that he was stressing the difficulties that the single mum had experienced with her marriage break up and how that had rubbed off on her daughter.

Simon you say "I do agree though that the idea of a happy home with one parent always there and everything being able to be paid for by one parent working in this day and age is very unreasonable". Why is it unreasonable today when it wasn't say 10, 20, 30 years ago? Aren't we actually better off nowadays?

I too didn't think this programme was very scientific. It was a whole hour and all it seemed to say was your children remember more than you actually realise and some memories can be falsely constructed. Nothing new there.

Eulalia

It is probably due to housing costs relative to incomes.

I'm with Eulalia. Personally I find the program fascinating.

I think the point is that it is important to be aware of the impact of our actions on our children. Kids take in so much more than we give them credit for a lot of the time.

I found the programme very interesting, and two of the families made me cry, because they reminded me of the non-relationship that I had with my Mum. We get on now, but she was very ill after she had me, and didn't bond with me at all.

The programme confirmed for me that my bad start in life with no noticable 'Mother Love' was what has made me an unhappy person all my life. I too, like the lady who feared her father, vowed that my children would never suffer in the way that I had.

I am glad to say that my ds seems to be a happy and well adjusted baby, and that he and I have an amazing bond. My dh told me that it was obvious that ds loves me. So, it just goes to show that you can overcome your start in life.

I've been mithering about this programme all day! Dd is 11 months and has been very happy playing by hersef from as soon as she was old enough. One friend I have who works with children with severe learning difficulties remarked when she saw my dd that it was encouraging that she was into independent play and could amuse herself, as this was one of the things children who have severe difficulties cannot do.
Probably about 8 instances out of 10 dd will NOT get upset if I leave the room and she has never shown signs of clinginess - which I was quite happy with up to yesterday!! (She is very happy when I reappear, though). Now I think I've been ignoring her too much, as in quite often when she is happy playing by herself, I take time to read or get on with something. However, we do make time to play one-to-one as well, just not all the time. I've had visions all day of her seeing me as some Joan Crawford figure in later life!!!!

Eulalia - i think simonhoward was talking about the cost of living these days and the general pressures of existing! It IS much harder now than it was, i was talking with my mother about it last night, when we were all young it was not a big deal to be able to affird a nanny / au pair, private school, private healthcare but now all that is considered a luxury. A lot of the time both parents have to go to work whether they want to or not.

Emilys

You hit it right on the head.

I'm not being paid a bad wage in my current job but since DW gave up work to have DD we have really noticed the difference in our standard of living.

Even things like a takeaway 3-4 times a month has now it is rare to do it once a month.

won't attempt to analyse the reasons, but i think a lot of people these days feel "downwardly mobile" compared to their parents. i never watch these programs - am i missing much?

Blimey, where I was growing up it WAS a very big deal indeed to have a nanny/au pair/private education etc. In fact, I didn't know anyone who had any of those things. Even my posh friends (daughters of investment trust managers at the bank and of teachers) went to the local comp. I think private education wasn't really thought of in those days (70s) except in terms of Eton etc. And our school was rubbish, so it wasn't because of the quality of the schooling. As for childcare, there were possibly fewer working mothers, or at least fewer full-time working mothers, but everyone still had the same patchwork of care. My mum always worked part-time so I had my own key and went home to an empty house after school quite often, or I went to friend's houses. I do think we probably expect more nowadays. I couldn't live without one income, but that's because I want at least one holiday abroad, nice furniture, a Smeg fridge and a kitchen extension and good quality childcare. My parents had none of these.

I agree aloha, it would have been an obsessive topic of conversation in our house if we had known anyone with a nanny/au pair! In fact I still remember my parents being flabbergasted that my friend went to Denmark for her holiday. It seemed the height of sophistication

my dad worked abroad a lot - my mum worked shift work at the airport - what was she supposed to do leave the small kids to get on with it? Au pairs were not expensive and not posh!