Guns, Guns, and Guns the good, the bad, the evil!!! continuance on difference between UKand US

[Leati]

Last night we were talking about differences in our cultures and one thing that kept coming up was guns. It appears that alot of you are appalled by the lack of Gun control in the US and the consequences. 49% of US households have a gun.

My perspective as a US citizen is there a basic reason people keep guns.

1. Police and Military...use in job
2. Hunting
3. Protection
4. Sport or Collector
5. Criminal Activity

I think most of you would agree that Police and Military probably need guns for thier job so that is not really up for dispute.

Next, is hunting and outdoorsy living. Ranchers, farmers, and people who hunt usually have rifles for those purpose. There are a small percentage of citizens who still hunt to put food on the table. Very few gun accidents or crimes come from this group of gun owners. It generally believed that that is because it is a way of life for these people and they have taught gun saftey since they were tots.

Protection, these are the people who probably live in crap neighborhoods and are afraid. Unfortunately, this is the group that has the most child related accidents.

Sport or Collector, this group mostly consist of a bunch of over egotistical men who have guns to show off, or because they can. I really don't know what the rate of accidents and criminal use, with this group is.

Then there are the criminals. These are the people who usually buy guns illegally anyway. Then they file off the guns serial number so there are no chances of tracing the guns origins. United States has many gang problems and it not uncommon to hear of these guns being used to scatter bullets at someones home or an entire group of homes. This is also the group that is most likely to hurt innocent bystanders.

So this is the layout, of the reason why our citizens feel they need guns. As for outlawing guns it would be nearly impossible, because it is a "right" protected under the constitution. This means that even if our lawmakers passed a law, our judicial system would throw it out. When you add to that NRA (natinal rifle association) is a powerful and large force to be reckoned with and they throw money at certain political parties it would be even more hard.

My perspective. Alot of people in our country still hunt and a small portion of those people actually count on the meat from hunting as a food supply. My parents own a couple of rifles that they keep in a gun safe. They have used them on several occasions to scare off coyote that are attacking thier animals. They have also used guns to kill rattlesnakes that have are in a position to cause bodily harm to a person. I do see the need for guns among this group.

I have a handgun for "protection." It was a compromise between my husband and myself. I really didn't want guns in my home but he was raised with them in his and felt it was necessary. The compromise...the gun is in a locked box...with a trigger lock...and the keys are kept in seperate locations. Personally, if someone broke into our home, I would be more like to use a can of pepper spray.

The sport or collector... these are the people who want automatic and semi-automatic guns to show off to thier buddies. They serve no purpose.

Finally the criminal, most of the guns they have are illegal anyway. They have been smuggled in from other countries or stolen. They are dangerous but even with stricter gun laws this group of villians would be able to get thier hand on guns.

< sorry for spelling error -Naive >

TnOgu
If you read my posts, you will see I was trying to get everyones elses perspective on the issue. By no means was I calling you naive...what I was trying to say is that you were naive to the policies and politics of US. I was trying to explain that it is not as easy as everyone thinks to make guns illegal because of the way our government works. I think governments can be set up many ways and be successful and with our dumb ass president(GWB)...I would hardly try to pretend that our country is superior. However, I did completely disagree with Hurricanes suggestion that hunting was a cruel way to get meat.

I'm a member of Amnesty International, so on the issue of campaiging for change - one voice joined with another makes things happen, if you want them to.

Look at Rosa Parks, she led to great change in the treatment of Blacks in the US with her peaceful protests.

Change can and does happen.

Oh and if you are reading my post to Xenia, just keep reading back and you will see what got me steamed...it was the suggestion that Americans are "simple people" who are "less sophisticated" and then there was some nonsense about cowboys added in there.

I do believe that change can happen, too. And for that matter has happened, gun laws in our country are more strict than ever. Unfortunately, there is not enough enforcement of those laws.

< Btw, welcome to MN >

Thanks!

I am not naive enough to expect a few British mothers on Mumsnet to make a difference to American gun culture. There is nothing in my posts to suggest this. In fact, I have said nothing about campaigning or protesting at all. I was merely airing my views in response to yours. In response to your saying I know nothing about American culture it may interest you to know that my mother is American and I have dual citizenship. It is precisely because I DO KNOW about American culture that I prefer to avoid it. That's not the same as saying avoiding Americans but there are many aspects of American culture and politics which I detest. Guns being a prime example. Fortunately I don't have to be as anxious about guns or hunting in this country because there is little tolerance for either.

As for hunting, using the example of battery farming to suggest that hunting is actually ok is frankly a bit stupid. I do not support the intensive farming of animals or their slaughter either. I am a vegeterian as are my kids. Hunting is vile. Animals are put through a huge amount of stress for the 'pleasure' of human beings. It's just not my idea of fun thanks. Of course some people need to kill animals to live but that's not what we're talking about here.

And using your constituttion as a way of justifying guns is a bit bonkers also. In this country, for all its faults, I think we have a healthy lack of deference for Govt and a constant questioning of all things which are presented to us as the way things are or 'natural'. Welcome to Mumsnet.

Americans are often simple people a bit behind Europe, of course they are. You'll catch up eventually but you even have the death penalty. You and China... we despair over here and so many believing the planet is 6000 years old only. It's a kind of simpleness which in some ways is quite sweet but you've a long way to go to be in the same advanced mindset of most Europeans.

Hurricane
I think you misunderstood my views as well. If you read my post you will realize that I too have my reservations about gun laws. And I was not saying that you are naive to the US culture but to the way our government runs. I am most certainly am not using the constitution to "justify" gun laws but to explain why they are so hard to change.
Finally, when I referred to a few mothers wanting to change the laws and being unable too, I was not referring to British mothers. I was referring American mothers. There are many American mothers whose hearts have been broken by the loss of a child because gun violence. There are many mother advocate groups who have tried to get the laws changed and I was trying to explain that it isn't that simple.
If I came across condescending then I truly apologize.

Xenia
Here we go back to the "Americans are simple minded and behind the times"
I don't know what that crap about the planet being 6000 years is about but I can most assuredly assure that I have never heard anyone say that before.

As for the death penalty it is really a matter of opinion. If my child was murdered and raped by some cold hearted bastard you would want him dead. And if the man who was supposed to love my daughter, killed her and her unborn child I would want him dead.

Ironically, while I say that and it is true, I personally am against the death penalty. You will find that as with many issues Americans are torn on this issue. The reasons I am against it are really simple

1. It is not equally distributed...if you are an African American you are more likely to be sentenced to death for the exact same crime

2. Innocent people have been wrongly found guilty. A person can be released from prison but they can't be brought back from death.

3. It cost more to sentence a person to death in the US, than to jail them for the rest of thier life.

Xenia I have one serious question, don't laugh to hard

Are intentionally trying to rile me by calling Americans simple and talking nonsense about cowboys and the age of the planet, or do you really believe the stuff you are saying?

Nobody believes dinosours were put here to test thier faith in God or that the planet is only 6000 years old. I don't know where you get these crazy ideas.

Our schools teach the The Big Bang Theory. We know the planet is millions of years old. We learned about the ice age, the stone age, just like you. Most of us believe in global warming (of course there are those who would rather stick thier head in the sand)

Once again the cowboy stuff really threw me for a loop. I think you have watched to many movies.

Here is the original thread

Leati -- I have relatives who are born again Christians and believe the Creationist myth about the world only being 6000-9000 years old. Scarey, but they are sincere, otherwise nice people.

The British media loves to show extremes of American culture, so the Creationists get way more airtime/discussion here in proportion to how much of the population they actually make up. Brits don't realise how distorted the media coverage of American culture is. But then the Brits do loudly whinge about the distortions there are in US coverage of British culture, without realising it goes both ways!

Just like only 43% of American households own a gun I imagine an equal proportion of Americans are at least mildly pro-gun control but you wouldn't think so from some of the pro-gun statements said, and even of those 43% who do own guns, many are quiet and private about it, or only keep guns for hunting. Some people who own guns also firmly believe in tight controls on who should be able to own them, it's not an all or nothing thing. Only a very small minority of Americans are true "everybody should have one" gun fans.