Capital Punisment

[fairyfly]

I have just been reading a Thesis on the subject which claimed 2 out of 3 people would like this form of punishment to be re-instated. Personally i don't believe that statistic so i wanted to ask if you would like to see it return as a way to handle our society?
Also i may have the year wrong (please correct me) but in 1965 it was abolished, i am interested to find out how often it was used in the 60's. Anyone have any facts?
Just fancied a chat about something that fascinates me, especially comparing statistic with
America the phillipines, china etc. also how 500
years ago you were put do death for trespassing, would love to know if the crime rates were low then.

I just find it so disgusting that normal people now get 'punished' if they stick up for themselves etc. Like if a burgler injures himself in your house he can sue you. its madness

I don't want to live in a society where the State kills people. I don't think the State should have that power over its citizens.

but twinkie, isn't justice punishment + rehabilitation? when our kids do something wrong we don't just punish them, we hopefully try to guide them to do the right thing next time & understand the consequences of their actions. some people aren't even brought up with that relatively low level of moral guidance. Please don't think I'm excusing their behaviour, I'm not, but I cannot subscribe to the black/white views you hold.
when i see some of the kids round our way chucking litter on the ground (gasps from dd1 at the very sight..) I ask them to pick it up, and if they refuse, I do it for them, to set an example. ok, it probably doesn't sink in 99 times out of 100, but I can't bear to think that I'm doing nothing to redress the situation. probably not a good eg, when we're talking about the death penalty..

I'm gonna stick my neck on the line here and say that, yes, for certain crimes, I feel the death penalty should be reintroduced. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but I would lose no sleep whatsoever if Ian Huntley, Ian Brady et al were given a lethal injection. They do not desverve any quality of life IMO.

i'm with oldiemum (not for the first time ) on this one. to me it all depends what you think the legal system is there for: is it to protect members of society? or to punish? i believe the first. i agree that most crimes are committed by people that have sufferred to one degree or another, either poverty, deprivation of a physical or more often emotional nature etc. a case in point is child abuse which, in the vast majority of cases is committed by people that have been abused themselves as children. if you take this into account, it seems pointless and sadistic to inflict more suffering on these people. yes they need to be kept away from society in many cases for the protection of others. but after that, i think their own inner worlds and pasts are punishment enough. hand on heart i feel that if something happened to a loved one (god forbid) i would stand by this point of view. we should focus much more on the root of crimes (cycles of abuse and neglect running through generations of families would be a good start) imo. as for capital punishment: it's morally wrong, practically it doesn't work, it costs the taxpayer tons of money, and imo totally decivilises a society that practises it. Texas being a good example of this. (sorry, not condemning texans, but just the sorry state of the state iyswim).

Fio2 -do you really think that people should have the right to defend their property with violence? How does that sit with punishing violent people? If the law doesn't defend all citizens against violence, under all circumstances, other than self-defence, what protection do we have against other people's arbitrary use of violence? There is a wonderful quote about this in A Man for All Seasons, but I can't find it. The gist is that if you flatten all the flaws and then face the Devil, the law being flat, what will you use to protect yourself?

That should read 'flatten all the laws'...

oldiemum, this is why the whole guantanamo thing is such an epic disaster: US worse than terrorists for using same tactics of fear and violence in the name of civilisation and democracy

Absolutely. And Robert Bolt for Prime Minister.

sorry i really dont like getting involved in these kind of arguments but if someone broke into my house and my childrens life may be at risk then 'yes' i would use violence

over my ignorant head oldiemum, talk me through it?

that is self defence fio2, and as long as it is in direct proportion to the attack, it's fine. however tony martin shot the burglar in the back...not the same imo

He wrote the screenplay for A Man for All Seasons. Do get it out on video some time, it's got some corking one-liners in it and is so 60s liberal in its outlook that it would make David Blunkett splutter.

Me too Fio. Without a second thought.

Disgusts me that our society looks to 'help' criminals time and time again, when quite frankly they often don't want to be helped.

IMO capital punishment is too good. If someone who is guuilty of some terrible crime is executed then they no longer have to live with the guilt of what they have done.
As far as i am concerned, making them pay by being imprisoned for life (when it means life) is a better punishment.

Oldiemum, I think that people do have the right to protect themselves with violence. The fight or flight instinct is incredibly strong, and if you woke up in the middle of the night to find an intruder in your house, I think it is asking too much of the individual to stop being a human being and to ignore their instincts and do a sober, rational calculation of just how much force they need to use to be deemed "reasonable". I just think that in some life-threatening situation (which an intruder in your house is), the law needs to recognise that we are human beings and cannot always override our instincts.

Tony Martin was an old Farmer living on his own who was terrorised by these scumbags.

THEY broke into his property, THEY were in the wrong. Tony Martin is not a dangerous man.

really do you want me to be truly honest and never beckon on mumsnet again?

If someone came into my house whilst my husband was working away and my children were asleep in bed. and tried to steal my things, I think I would want to to rip their heads of and s**t down their throats, sorry but thats how I feel

I have to say I disagree with you about Tony Martin, though Northerner. He was a paranoid lunatic who lay in wait every night for somebody to come in and invade his house. A sane person would have done something like getting locks and a burglar alarm, but Tony Martin got a gun. He was waiting for somebody to burgle him, so that he could teach them a lesson. That is not the same as being caught off-guard by an intruder.

I think Tony Martin should have been given a pardon and a medal - he was an old man with mental health problems being targetted by these complete fucking dregs of society who had targeted loads of houses around whwre he lived before - he woke in the night - was alone and heard his house being broken into - how much do you think it would take to push you to the edge where you would use a gun - me not much at all if I were him and even les if DD and DS were inthe house with me.

He may well be a paranoid lunatic, that was due to the fact that he was targeted by burgalars. He had locks on his windows and he had 3 large dogs. He didn't go and 'get' a gun to shoot burgalars - he was a farmer. What farmer doesn't have a shot gun?

Wow - seems Tony Martin should be punished severly for having mental health problems - probably exascerbated by these thugs - the little shit he shot got everything he deserved - IMO you break the law you suffer the consequences and if those consequences are bing shot by a mad old bloke - don't break the law in the first place!!

fio2, of course you would feel like that, it's whether you acted on it that makes the difference...

(Northerner - if you weren;t a northerner you could be me!!)

Twinkie