Calling all expats......

[fabarooney]

Calling all expats out there!!

On a couple of threads recently it has emerged that loads of mumsnetters are, like moi, expats and were keen to start a thread on this.

So here goes......!
Where are you all? Why are you there? What do you like / hate about your location? How do you feel about this lifestyle?

I'm from the UK originally, now living in Holland by way of Australia. We've been moving due to husband's job with a large oil company. We've been out of the UK for nearly 5 years now. We have two dds - dd2 born in Australia. Dd1 left UK with us when she was only 6 months old. Neither child considers the UK to be home.
Things I like about Holland - cakes and chocolate, chips and mayonnaise, bike-friendly, close to UK and family.
Things I don't like about Holland - size of hips since arrival (see above), "brusque" manner of the Dutch (being polite and tolerant of other cultures, see!), weather.

I think it would be great if we could get a thread going that gives us all a place to get some support from people that know what we're going through. Please join in, don't want to be a Norma No Mates!!

hi fabarooney.

I'm an expat too. Guess where I live!

Both my kids were born here (just don't ask about maternity services in Spain! We're all alive and well though which is the main thing i suppose).

Things I like about Spain: fiestas, tapas, paella, child-friendliness (even the tax inspector offered to hold ds while i filled out a form in his office! ), the local produce and cost of living.

Things I don't like: "mañana" , the driving/other drivers/kamikaze mopedists, the hospital .

BTW I didn't think the Dutch were brusque. I've never visited, but when my mum did she said she was amazed by the fact that everyone seemed to know she was English before she spoke. I asked a Dutch student about this (I was ateacher in the UK) and she said "yes, you can tell the English because they don't say hello as soon as they walk into a shop". I thought it was interesting.

Hi, I'm an expat too

I have spent 5 yrs living in the US, then sometime in Canada, 1 yr in Spain and almost 6 yrs in England. I'm originally from Mexico but being away for such a long time has changed me a bit, I feel a bit foreign between Mexicans now (and most of them don't even recognise my accent anymore ) though I love them to pieces. So as Serrat once said "I don't have a port anymore, I have lost my home".

What I like about the area where I live is that people is very polite, every body seems to be able to cook some wonderful desserts, everybody arrives on time, the city is beautiful and unpolluted, and it is a very safe area being a rather small city.

What I dislike most about this city is that most people is not used to see people from abroad and believe that by being a foreigner you're a fake asylum seeker trying to steal their benefits, but nobody seems to recognise that most expats living in this place are either teaching their children at university or bringing a lot of business to the city.(and paying their taxes too!).

Fabarooney, I am very interested in knowing more about the Dutch, it seems likely to be "our" next country.

Will be very interested to know about the Dutch, it seem like is going to be our next country.

SraApostrofe...lol at not saying hello when entering into a place... Most of my co nationals living in the UK find it so rude that they think it's personal!!!. I just find it convenient, probably because in the area of Mexico I'm from we don't say hello either

Hi, Fabarooney. I'm an ex-expat, iykwim! We've been living in Indonesia, came back to the UK last summer. We may go abroad again when dd1 is settled at uni next year, depending on the oil business at the time.

We loved Indonesia, friendly people, warm weather (I don't like the heat but adapted pretty well, much to my surprise.) cheap shopping and holidays. Also loved having a cook/housekeeper. Hated the hassles dh's co gave us (mostly caused by Dutch people!), the traffic jams, the bureacracy, the terrorists and not being able to wash our teeth using tap water. Loved and hated having a driver. It was great to be chauffered everywhere but annoying because we couldn't do things on the spur of the moment. It was a bit like being dependedent on your parents again!

I'm an inverse expat (from yr perspective), an expat to the UK from the US. I'd love to commiserate re. the brusque Dutch ANYTIME, fabarooney. Dh is Dutch as are all his brusque relatives. If you want to let off some steam, I volunteer!

Oooh, this is going to be good!!!

Senora, the Dutch do speak amazingly good English and most of the English-speaking expats here are horrifically embarrassed about their inability to speak Dutch that we tend not do it. The whole British reserve thing, I think. Perhaps that's what causes the confusion. When I say that the Dutch are brusque, perhaps that is the wrong word. I do find the culture here very calvanistic. Things are meant to be endured - pain, childbirth, poor customer service etc. Nobody goes out of their way to help you - and that's not just the expats btw, it's everyone. It's been the biggest culture shock since Aus (which was fabarooney, btw!)

Chandra, wow, well travelled or what?! Which country have you preferred so far?

Suedonim, from an earlier thread I guess you are in sunny Aberdeen now - my home town. Don't you just love the way it gets dark at 3.30pm in Winter. I used to have to wear 3 pairs of socks (no exaggeration) in winter to avoid chillblains. How do you find Aberdonians, btw? Perhaps "brusque" is the word you are looking for. Your dh doesn't work for an Anglo-Dutch oil company, does he? I must say, at the risk of sounding like a spoilt expat wife, I seriously like the idea of full-time help. We were considering Singapore before coming here and I have to say that the maid/amah idea was v. tempting!!!

Ooh, Expatkat, are you horribly offended by what I said? Sorry, can't help it, have this terrible tendency to speak my mind!!! How did you meet your Dutch hubby? Whereabouts in the UK are you? How are you finding the UK compared to the US?

Fabarooney--No!!!!! Really, I meant, let's slag off the Dutch together. . . I was being very literal! Of course they're lovely, too, but that directness, what you call brusqueness, can be v. off-putting, I completely agree. My best example is when a friend of SILs asked me what I do. When I answered that I'm a writer, mostly of poetry, he replied: "You write poetry? We have a Dutch expression for that kind 'work': bringing water to the sea." You can imagine how crestfallen I suddenly was. I do love how they speak their mind, but it takes some getting used to. In a way that directness is better than hiding behind a (thin) veil of politeness, but it can feel like a big blow sometimes, too.

Hello! I am from the North of England and moved to Italy in March 2003 with DH and DS who is now 2 and a half.

We live in Tuscany and opened a restaurant last August. DH is the chef and I am front of house. We live next door to the restaurant and so we can hear ds on the baby monitor if he wakes up! Am 5 months pregnant and very excited about the new arrival.

Things I love about Italy....the sunshine! the food (DH's cooking), the lifestyle which is much more relaxed, NO TRAFFIC JAMS!, a safer lifestyle for my family to grow up, the people.

Things I dont like....beauracracy (sp?) which is hell!, mosquitoes at night.

Things I miss.....Jaffa cakes, English chocolate, Battenburg cake!!

Great thread by the way.

This seems like a good idea for a thread to me, count me in. I'm orignally from the Uk and now live in Italy via Australia, Brazil and Denmark. DS was born in Denmark, a fantastic place for having kids as long as there are no complications, and DH is Brazilian (met in Australia, as you do!) Main reasons for moving are due to work - both DH and I work for the United Nations.
Things I love about Italy-well the food and wine goes without saying really but not of course the size of hips that go with it, I empathise with you there fabarooney. The weather is good too but terribly humid here. And everyone is very impressed by my totally feeble attempts at speaking Italian.
Things I don't like - not being able to ride my bike or drive the car (I live in Venice) but it does mean I walk a lot and get plenty of exercise! And the tourists all year round!
Something I find really wierd is that 'stranger danger' just doesn't exist here and if DS falls over or even just cries for some reason then everyman and his wife jumps in with advice and a sweetie for him which I don't really like TBH, is it the same in Spain SP?

Oh yes collision you're right - how on earth could I forget the beauracracy in Italy(I can't spell it either)!!

hi all, have been living in New Zealand (husband a kiwi) for 2 years. DS born in UK, number 2 about to be born here probably next week!!!
Things I love about here, lifestyle, weather (on the whole although Auckland does rain alot), not having to work and being able to spend time with DS
Things I don't like - mainly being so far from family, old friends and home, daddies sauce - you can get HP if you are lucky in a supermarket but never in a cafe and you can't beat a good toasted sandwich or bacon sarnie with brown sauce!!!!, kiwi TV and 'she'll be alright' mentality - eg had new swimming pool put in, is leaking (only a bit but leaking) but 'she'll be alright' it's not much - ME - I don't think so can you fix the leak - argghhhhh, driving - take the road book and do the opposite
Not sure how long we will be here but next port of call either france or spain I think, not sure yet so will keep looking at this thread to see who is where....

Fabaroony, oh dear, yes, the 10am sunrises and 3pm sunsets - gloom, literally. Luckily we live close to the school so I can be home by 3.15 to pull the curtains and light the fire, ignoring that cold chilly world outside the door.

Aberdonians are okay, actually. I suppose I'm an expat up here, as well, as we're both from Kent, plus I don't understand the Aberdeen lingo, hehe!! We live about 20 miles from Aberdeen and there's a mix of people from loads of different places, it's quite cosmopolitan compared to Perthshire, where we used to live. Dh did used to work for an Anglo-Dutch company until about 10yrs ago but has since moved on since.

Re having staff. It's great but you soon find out that not only have you taken them on, but you're now responsible for their family as well - eek! I must admit, I wouldn't have been happy to leave children with a nanny, they have such different standards to those of us used to western ways.

albert - yes, children are not afraid to talk to strangers here. And people will not hesitate to help me out when dd is running off and ds is crying, for example. In fact that is one of the things that makes me want to stay here (want to come home in a few years to be close to family etc). People in the UK seem to be paranoid beyond belief, when the rate of abductions there is no higher than it is anywhere else, and no higher than it ever was. (I could rant about this for hours, but I´ll leave it there).

Another thing I miss is fresh cream! How can a whole country survive on UHT?

Me too ...
I was born an expat ... am 'British' but only lived in the UK for 4 years during my entire childhood ... )Born in South Africa, lived in Spain for a bit and then grew up in Holland from age 3 to 18 (broken up in the middle with the 4 years in the UK). Only went to the UK properly at 18 for Uni then met DH and stayed until aged 32 when I moved to NZ ...
Despite all that travelling I still see England as home ...
Things I miss about England: The history, old buildings, the Pub culture, Ikea, Tesco's, sugar free cordials, good old English Curry (Chicken Tikka Masala , decent motorway (you may be surprised by that but the Motorway system in Auckland is shocking!!!), drivers (Kiwis are terrible drivers!), Blue Water and other shopping malls where you can park your car once and get everything you need in one place, my family, central heating ....

Ghosty you forgot to mention that you are a fantastic mumsnetter and i really love you on this site

I am an expat twice removed.. [confused??]

I was born in the UK - parents moved me to South Africa as a baby. I grew up there and went to school there. I moved back to the UK when I was 18, went back to SA at 23 for 2 years then returned to the UK 5 years ago. We are moving back to South Africa in 3 months time - this time it's a permanent move - I am NOT re-locating again.

Things I love about England - the history and tradition and sentimental ties due to both my children being born here (littlest one hasn't been born yet)....

I hate, hate, hate English traffic...

Things I love about SA are the weather, the beaches, family, spectacular food, the people and the way it smells after it rains...

Things I hate about SA are the crime, the indifference to the appalling way people live and the amount of little children who are so poor they stand on the street and beg...

Hi, I'm an expat too. Originally from Texas, my DH is English and we've lived in England for over ten years with one year in Tokyo.

Things I love about England - lower crime and fewer guns than Texas, more gentle and relaxed pace of life, good schools, good quality meat and produce, the weather (believe it or not!), kind genuine people

Things I don't like about England - the M25 and confusing road signs, how it takes ages to make friends, small houses with no storage space, waiting lists for everything from operations to preschools

I think England will be our home forever now though we talk about spending a few years in Sydny or Singapore for DH's company. Don't think I could handle the Singapore heat though. That's definitely something I do not miss about Texas!

I used to think the same thing,English so polite and Dutch so "brusque".Now I think that the Dutch atleast say what they think.The English are polite "in your face" but don't really mean it. I think there is a bit of a difference bereen the "protestrant" north and the "catholic" south (a bit more easy going than the north).

I agree with that 100% lailag. Directness is actually better than faux politeness--which the recipient can usually see through, anyway.

I'm very late to this thread but delighted you started it Fabarooney!

I'm in Texas (couldn't have guessed that from my name hey!), but was born and bred in England. Hubby is Scottish and dd was born here but will be getting her British passport on our next trip over.

Houston is OK - the weather is horrible, moan as Brits do about the weather over there....at least you can go outside every day without melting/sweating/getting heat stroke & sun burn!! Either it's baking hot and humid as a sauna or it's raining more than I've ever seen in my life. Last week we had 5inches in 4 hours.....that's a lot of rain!!

Find Americans to be alright on the whole....though you mentioned faux politeness expatkat - over here it's taken to a whole new level!

'Hi how are you'
'I'm good'
'That's great ma'am, have a wonderful day'
'Thanks'

• this little conversations happens several times a day with complete strangers..... I've learnt not to say 'I'm fine thank you' as for some odd reason this doesn't compute and they look quite perplexed and we get on the whole 'Where are you from, I love your accent - I went to London once - do you know John Smith?' rant.... But, on the whole the Americans I've met are nice, we have some good neighbours and we've met some lovely & interesing couples through our ante-natal class.

I find the political situation quite scary - there seems to be a lot of ignorance (please don't be offended other Americans...I don't mean you!) about the rest of the world & the US Government. I do find the 'top' man here infuriating too - but that's my opinion!

I miss Twiglets, Jaffa Cakes, real bacon, black cabs (taxi drivers here ask me directions.....duh! that's why I'm taking a taxi, because I don't know the way!!), the weather, being able to walk to places & the NHS.

What I love about America: Pottery Barn, Banana Republic, TARGET (love love love Target!), the ease of life in general. The winter is pretty nice, it's mid 60s for about 2 months which is nice....we can go for walks and get to wear a jacket! Child/family friendsliness - much better than the UK....free refills of whatever soft drink you order in a restaurant and the obligatory free iced water that arrives when you sit down for dinner (we normally just have that and there is no feeling of being a skinflint like you'd have in the UK).

We were really lucky when I was pg with our dd, we managed to find a great team for the birth and to help afterwards. As I've said before on MN it's very hard to have a natural childbirth here and it was a real battle for us...but we managed it and are so delighted we did.

We're here b/c of dh's job - we find out next month if we return to England in Feb 2005 or Feb 2007...I'm getting nervous about it.

....oh and I can't stand the tipping policy here - 20% is standard and they ask 'would you like any change ma'am?' it would be OK if you were handing over a $20 for a meal that cost $19, however when the meal cost $14 it's taking the p**s slightly!

OK - rant over! Very nice to meet you all and sorry if I got a bit carried away!

Don't know if I'm called an expat as most of the moves are self inflicted but born in NZ, at 91 spent a year in Alaska, then 96/97 3 months in Colorado, met dh then in 98 we spent 3.5mnths in Arlington Texas and 3.5mnths in Louisiana. Then spent 2000 in Sydney then in Feb 01 moved to London and have been here ever since, dd was born in March.
What I have loved: the opportunity to have this experience, meet so many great people and make friends.
What I don't like is having all the Christmas cards to write, no matter where I live I miss foods from somewhere.

Hi mummyintexas, good to see you again. I know what you mean about the Texan 'politeness'. I actually worked for a clothing store in Austin once where it was the policy to compliment every customer who came into the shop! Not very genuine.

The weather in Houston is diabolical. That's where we fly in when we go back and the humidity hits you in the chest as soon as you step off the plane!

And BTW, I'm not a Bush supporter either. Horrible man.

Hi Tex111

I love Austin - need to go again soon.....much nicer than Houston - shame it's such a long drive.

I like your description of the humidity - I describe it like walking into a wall of mugginess.....the thing that I find weird and I'm not yet used to is: when I open the window I'm expecting cool air to come in...and instead hot sweaty air comes flooding in.....I forget every time....in the summer we just can't open the windows and boy oh boy do we love our a/c!

mit x

Oh - forgot to add - we have our own tipping policy; if the waiter asks for one (and the cheeky chaps often do) it is instantly dramatically reduced. Similarly if the change comes back in $1 bills it's reduced (if you're due 12 dollars in change how rude is it to give you back 12 $1's just so you have some spare change to tip them with!!!).
Don't get me wrong, we do tip if we've had excellent service and we even tip as standard if the service has been mediocre - however I refuse to tip for terrible service, bad food and then some cheeky sod putting me on the spot with 'how much gratuity would you like me to add onto your bill ma'am'!!!! !!!!
mit x

When we're in Texas one thing I miss about England is really cold water from the tap. Funny the little things that you come to appreciate.

Austin is lovely. It's my favourite city in Texas. I went to university and got married there so it has lots of good memories. We were there in May for my sister's graduation from UT and was so nice to be back.

I loooooove AC! Just the sound of it makes me sleep better. Guess it's just what I was used to growing up. Ahhhh, that gentle hum. Drives DH mad when we're there as I like to keep the AC on what we call 'hang meat' as in it's so cold you could hang meat in the room!

MiT, I embarras my Texan friends all the time with my tipping! It's just ridiculous to be expected to tip 20% regardless of the quality of service.