Calling all expats......

[fabarooney]

Calling all expats out there!!

On a couple of threads recently it has emerged that loads of mumsnetters are, like moi, expats and were keen to start a thread on this.

So here goes......!
Where are you all? Why are you there? What do you like / hate about your location? How do you feel about this lifestyle?

I'm from the UK originally, now living in Holland by way of Australia. We've been moving due to husband's job with a large oil company. We've been out of the UK for nearly 5 years now. We have two dds - dd2 born in Australia. Dd1 left UK with us when she was only 6 months old. Neither child considers the UK to be home.
Things I like about Holland - cakes and chocolate, chips and mayonnaise, bike-friendly, close to UK and family.
Things I don't like about Holland - size of hips since arrival (see above), "brusque" manner of the Dutch (being polite and tolerant of other cultures, see!), weather.

I think it would be great if we could get a thread going that gives us all a place to get some support from people that know what we're going through. Please join in, don't want to be a Norma No Mates!!

Cold tap water - you're absolutely right....winter was great as the water was actually cold and not luke warm (hate rinsing my teeth with warm water at bedtime!). I've got a trick though - the first 5 seconds are cold as that water has been sitting in the pipes inside the air conditioned house ......imagine me dramatically racing to the tap before dh does his teeth so I can harness the cold water.....!!!

Great idea. I'll have to remember that next time we're over!

Hi everyone, glad to see this taking off!!

Ghosty, was interested to see that you are an expat child. How did you find moving around and going to different schools? Dd1 has found our moves increasingly difficult and we are really worried about whether this is something we can continue.

Actually, would be really interested to hear how other people help their children deal with moves and leaving behind friends.

I took the kids away from London for 7 months. Not a problem for dd (then 1yr old), but a bigger problem for ds (4) who left behind friends he was v. attached to & had to start at a new school. We found that writing letters back and forth and sending photos/drawings was a good way to ease the transition. Perhaps older kids could be encouraged to stay in touch by e-mail? Of course that doesn't address the other problems of adjustment, but it does help with the sadness surrounding leaving behind friends.

Should have been clearer: my post was in response to fabarooney's q's about how to ease a child's transition into a new place.

Don't know if I'm a real expat or just a backpacker who got tired one day, sat down and couldn't be bothered getting up again. Born in NZ (4th generation) but headed off on my big OE when I was 20. Lived/worked in UK for 5 years but had bad case of itchy feet and kept wandering off to various places in Europe/North Africa/Middle East. Ended up in Israel for a couple of years then back to UK then back to Cairo where I worked for 2 years. Got hooked on Scuba Diving and moved to Sharm El Sheikh (Sinai) where I've been for the past 9 years working as a Diving Instructor. Met British Hubby here 8 years ago, got married in October and delivered our son in Cairo in December. Things I LOVE - the weather, the diving, the low cost of living, no tax, the diving, can afford to be SAHM and just dive for my own pleasure, my 365 day tan, the diving. Things I HATE ..... too numerous to list I'm afraid but pros must outway the cons or I wouldn't have stayed for so long . As for the Dutch , we were given a book from some of our Dutch guests called "The Undutchables". Great read and hits the nail right on the head.

... whoops, forgot Hong Kong for a year as well.

Hi all, great thread. I'm in Noo Joisey land of the Sopranos and enormous hairdos and fingernails. We've been here eight months but probably won't be here more than 2 years altogether (WOOHOO!). The weather here is monsoon-like at the moment.
I like the community spirit of small town America, the focus on family, and the general positive outlook and sense of entitlement that is so american. I am finally beginning to feel ok about saying : "I need x, y, & z, right now, thank you" rather than "Please, if it's not too much trouble, could you possibly get me x y and z as soon as it's convenient, thank you so much".
THe reverse side of the coin is the "me first" culture that works on small levels such as their APPALLING driving (I'm taking valium before I ever go on the NJ turnpike again) assuming everyone else will just get out of the way, up to the national level of total lack of understanding that "THe american way" is not just what the rest of the world needs and wants.
MiT - I still can't help saying "fine thank you" half the time to the "how are you" business - I know exactly what you mean about the perplexion it causes!
My children have adapted quite well, considering they came from a private school in a tiny Kentish village with 130 pupils from 3 - 13, now they're in a K - 3 elementary with over 100 pupils in each grade. Ds aged 9 is coping better than dd6, even though she is the more gregarious, as we put her up a year to First Grade because she was already in year 1 at home, whereas agewise she should have been in half day kidergarten out here. Academically she's ok, but socially she's having problems and with hindsight, it was a big mistake.
I love Netflix, Target, Banana Republic, Victoria's Secret, Johhny Rocket's, and drive-thru banking. I love/hate drive thru Dunkin Donuts (my car turns in of it's own accord.) I LOVE my big chunky SUV - it's hilly and very snowy in the winter so it's necessary - I'd have felt a prat in one in England.
Since finding jaffa cakes and baked beans locally I don't miss too much foodwise though I wish they wouldn't add sugar and (it seems) cinnamon to abdsolutely everything. I just miss my friends, and good telly, and british humour.

Another ex-pat here - also living in Holland!! We moved from U.K about 8 yrs ago, lived in Switzerland for about 5 yrs and 3 yrs in Holland. Am expecting to move in about a year or so to who knows where (depends upon husband's job). I love and hate the relocations; love them because I love to explore new places, cultures etc. but hate it because I tend to settle really quickly and start to think of my new country as 'home' ...until the next move that is

Things I love about Holland - much the same as Fab - people are amazingly tolerant of Johnny Foreigner invading their country, without speaking their language or making that much of an attempt to integrate; education system is good; family culture is IMO, far superior to U.K.
Prices of booze and fags

Things I am not so keen on - the food (revolting ), the directness of the Dutch, which I find a little intimidating and the lack of customer service, a non-existent concept.

Whereabouts in Holland are you fabarooney?

How old is your dd, fabarooney? We have 3 kids, aged 8, 6 and 2.

Hi all, what a great idea for a thread.

We have been in Switzerland for just over 3 years now. dd was born here and ds was 3 when we moved. Both dh and I come from UK but his aunt has been a long term expat in Hong Kong and Dubai and it was visiting her that made us think seriously about it. He works for a bank and was able to get a secondment, initially for 1 year but already 3!

ds attends an International School and generally loves it (not as much homework as he'd have in UK!) but has a hard time with all the comings and goings. We've just returned from a visit "home" during which we visited our old house and a prospective school as it is likely we will return next summer and he was really jittery about the prospect.

To a great extent I feel cushioned from normal life over here as I don't speak the language to any great extent and tend to socialise within the expat community. Advantages are quality of life, access to the outdoors, low crime rate etc, disadvantages are language and social differences (Swiss are quite formal and reserved), cost of living and especially school fees, sense of isolation from local community, transience of friends. But at least we get visitors from UK fairly regularly and can top up our supplies of tea bags, Shreddies and comics/magazines !

I'm in Switzerland, too. (Um, not at the moment!) We've been there for 2 years and I distinctly remember LIZS moving over and making a note to myself to get in touch with her if we ever moved there. (I did and she's great.)

My husband, my boys (6 1/2 and 2 1/2) and I are Americans. We lived in London for two years before we moved to CH and my youngest was born there. Next year we are pretty sure (hoping) we'll move back to London and stay long enough to get citizenship.

Things I like about Switzerland: the safety, outdoor activities and general sense that everyone is looking out for me and my sons. Things I don't like: living in a small village, everyone knowing my business, the lack of decent well priced sushi and the lack of black cabs.

Things I like about London: well, it's London! I love the variety things to do, the places to take the boys, the childcare and not needing a car. Things I don't like: the service, the prices and the very confusing school system.

Things I miss about home (Chicago): Mexican food, neighbours who I know and love and the general child-friendliness. Things I don't miss: Republicans and tipping (although, please realize that waitresses can legally get paid less than minimum wage because they will make it up in tips! Less than half min wage, or at least that was the case when I waitressed).

We have alarming amounts of the Dutch where I live in CH. I know about directness! (One of my good friends is Dutch and we joke about it... please don't take that as a put down.)

I do have a question about being an expat. This was not an issue for me in London, because my friends weren't like this, but here: what do you do when a "wife of" (eg, I'm a "wife of", it's my husband's job that takes us places) is, ummm, overly open about her and her husband's career goals, etc. I mean, when she's trying to find out what I know about thus and so?

Hi Y'all

See, I'm trying to blend in with my fellow Texans! Just in case you missed my post - I've changed my name.....so you recognise me on this thread & others!

Hope y'all had a good day, I'm fixin' to go to bed....

mit xx (formerly known as mummyintexas)

Fairyfly ... you are so sweet ... thank you ...
Fabarooney ... there were big pros and cons about moving around so much as a child ...
The age of your child is important as to when you move. None of our moves were a problem for me ... I was 2 when we left SA, 3 when we left Spain, 4 and a half when we moved towns in Holland, 6 when we moved to the UK, 10 when we moved back to Holland. All those ages were good for me, especially as I was in one secondary school ... I didn't really care where I was as long as I was with my mum and dad!
I think the most difficult transition for me was going from Holland to England when I was 6. I had only been to pre-school in Holland and so when I arrived in Primary School in the UK every one could read and do maths etc, and I couldn't do anything. I couldn't even speak English that well. I had a lot of catching up to do I remember and was known at school as the 'Little Dutch Girl' even though I was English. I remember being teased in the playground when someone asked me where my clogs were. Luckily I wasn't the kind of child that was bullied easily so that teasing didn't last long
I think my brothers and my sister struggled more than I did with the second move ... they are older than me and my brother was 6 months off doing his O Levels when we moved back to Holland, my sister was 14 and my other brother was 12 ... not the best ages to settle into a whole new environment IMO. Education and language as such wasn't a problem then as we went to the British School in the Netherlands so we didn't have to go back into the Dutch system after being in England for 4 years ...

I think moving around isn't at all a problem for children if you do it at the right ages for them and try not to move once they are in secondary school ... I am open to moving around for the time being but I know that once DS is settled in High School we will stay put.

Message withdrawn

Turquoise, your post made me laugh. That American sense of entitlement is something I've had to cope with too. Lord knows what my colleagues must've thought of me before I got the whole 'If it's not too much trouble... if you have a moment...' way of being polite here in England. In the beginning I also didn't understand that I was actually being asked to do something. I took what people said to me quite literally (as Americans often do!) which would lead to someone saying something like 'It would be great if you could do it before lunchtime, if it's not too much trouble'. I now know that that means 'Do it right now!'.

I recently read a great book called 'Understanding the English' by Kate Fox. I wish I had that book ten years ago! DH found it really interesting too and actually learned a lot about himself.

Sugar in everything in the States drives me crazy now. My mother even sprinkles it in vegetables! In my next life I'm going to be a sugar cane farmer in America. They must be raking it in. I have to admit, I do miss the cinnamon though.

I agree ggglimpopo, about being able to travel a lot as an adult if you did as a child.
When we made the decision to move to NZ many of my English friends were quite horrified and impressed at the same time that we would make such a massive step. I don't know how many times I have explained that the concept of moving away to different countries is not strange to me due to my childhood. In fact the only people who have really understood and supported our move are my parents, my brothers and my sister.

Food I miss: Herta frankfurter sausages ... in fact ALL sausages here are terrible!

Oh ... and M&S sandwiches ... really really really miss those ...

Things I love about NZ: The friends I have made, the adverts on telly about vitamins for sheep and cows (they really amuse me for some reason ... , the mild winter (up in Auckland anyway ... have never needed to wear a coat), the spectacular countryside and wild coasts and beaches, the school uniforms (great big 6 foot 17 year olds wearing grey school shorts and long socks!), rugby, the multicultural society ...

ooh what a great thread. I am a sort of expat, quite similar to dejags!

I was born in the UK. We moved every 18months (although only moved schools twice in that time). We emigrated to SA when I was 15, I came back to the UK when I was 17 (to do A levels), went back to SA to do university (as Maggie had kindly introduced the rule where you couldn't go to uni in the UK at discounted fees if you hadn't lived here for 2 years continuously beforehand). Did my articles in SA then chucked it all in and in 1999 came back to the UK where I've lived since.

What I found strange about SA when I first moved there - the space - couldn't get used to that for ages, always having to drive everywhere, the horrendous number of poor children.

What I found weird about UK when I came back - the lack of space, the amount of property you get for your money, general rudeness of everyone and the fast pace of life, the way children spend so much time indoors.

I suppose my experience is heightened because most of my time in SA was in Cape Town and most of my time in UK has been in London so that accentuates the differences I think.

I do also agree that if you are used to moving about as a child it makes it much easier as an adult. I have absolutely no problem moving to a new area, making friends and getting settled. My dh on the otherhand, only ever moved house once in his whole life (till we met!) and finds moving quite traumatic.

Hi - I´m living in Germany, been here for 4 years. Dh is German and village G.P. so will probably never return to live in U.K. DD was born here and baby number two is due in October.
Things I like about Germany: beautiful countryside, enviromental awareness, bakeries and cakes in particular.
Things I don´t like: living in a village where everybody know your business, lack of customer service, German directness - still haven´t got used to it.
What I miss about England: my friends, decent supermarkets (particularly ready chilled meals), Walkers salt and vinegar crisps and sandwiches made with lovely soft squishy bread.

Message withdrawn

Hello, me too. I'm orginally from Manchester, then Birmingham, the Slough and then thought "what the heck?" and moved to Christchurch NZ. Now I think I'm about as far south as I will ever go!

I miss tins that say Heinz on them, polo mints, being able to drive out of one town and into another (drive out of Christchurch and you end up in a field for a couple of hundred miles). Agree with Ghosty that all sausages are horrible - also sausage rolls (I had one the other day with peas in FFS). Oh and Pork pies. No central heating -what is that about?

Things I like; cheap steak that melts in your mouth (and is cheaper than bacon and vile sausage); having the same midwife throughout my entire pregnancy, birth and aftercare; Being able to live in a four bedroom house with a lovely garden and still be a SAHM about 90% of the time; call centre staff using my name in telephone conversations; Sales assistants getting me another size if the one I have picked up off the rack was a little ambitious; Being able to buy a really lovely jacket for my ds for next winter for around 2 pounds 50; being unusual and interesting just because I talk differently and finally living in a place where people watch Corro Street as a comedy and Shortland St as a serious drama - worth it for the novelty value alone; being able to meet the All Blacks on Monday (even if one of them did give my ds a stomach bug along with a hug); Friends having swimming pools, and loads more other stuff, basically I love this place.

Sorry about having another 5 things after my "and finally" I just kept remembering stuff.

toddlerbob ... been thinking of you lately! How are you? You've been awfully quiet recently!
You met the All Blacks? Wow! How cool is that? Did you give Carlos a big snog for me ?
Completely agree with you about the antenatal and post natal care here in NZ ... so glad I had DD here and not in the UK!
Also LOL re. Corrie and Shortland Street ...
NZ telly is rubbish IMO and thank god they have finally got Eastenders on in the evening now even though we are about 25 years behind!!!

ahhh but eastenders is on prime and we don't get any reception - will have to get you to tape it for me......
I also hate the fact when I buy a gossip magazine I don't know who the gossip is about but love at the same time the small country syndrome i.e. going to 'events' with DH and asking the 'famous' key speaker where the toilets are thinking he was a waitor, having a pee in teh toilet next to charlotte dawson and getting served before holmes (that man is odious IMO) as am heavily pregnant!!! I can't imagine hobnobbing with british celebs...
And whoever said walkers salt and vinegar crisps, you made me salivate.