Anyone know ANYTHING about nursing homes?

[UnquietDad]

I tried this on the Sandwich board (!) but I think people haven't quite got into that yet. So I thought I'd ask exactly the same question here instead.

DW and I are 200 miles from my ageing parents. Other siblings are even further away. My father had a sudden illness recently and we thought he was getting better - now it appears the hospital aren't happy and they are making mutterings about nursing homes. It seems they can do no more. Basically they're saying, he's taking up a hospital bed, let's talk about getting him outta here.

All this has been a major shock to my mother, and although we've visited twice since it happened, it's not ideal providing support over the phone......

I imagine this is why people never move away from their parents. Or move back closer to them.

I know naff-all about nursing homes. if someone can fill me in I'd be really grateful. How do you choose a good one? are they just places people are sent to vegetate or can they be pleasant places? Is it like choosing a school, where everyone wants the best ones and you get the dross if you sign up late? Are there private ones and state ones? How much do they cost, and how do they decide how much you pay? How much independence do people get in them? Is it likely that, as my parents worked all their lives they'd be expected to pay for it in full?

Am totally clueless. Talk to me like an idiot please.

It's a very complex issue, as your OP makes clear. There have been a few threads about this kind of thing if you do an archive search, esp re the scandalous situation re funding nursing care for elderly people.

I haven't got much time to post more this evening, and I'm not that well informed myself, but I'd say ring Age Concern on Monday - they do booklets etc, and I think have an advice line.

Hope someone else comes on with some advice and experience. And hope you get something good sorted out.

thank you for the info, I'll do a search.

I know a little bit about them because I sometimes visit them with my work (Health and Safety Inspector)
I'm afraid that most of the ones I visit are pretty grim...sorry. Often it seems that their main purpose is to make money for the owners. In saying that, there are some good ones about. To be blunt, if you go to one and it doesn't smell of piss, then it's probably quite good.
I know that in Scotland the Care Commission does regular inspections and you can access their reports on the internet. I'm sure there is an equivalent organisation in England.
Other that, make sure you have a really good look around (I'm sure you would anyway). Visit at meal times to make sure that even the frailest residents are helped to finish their meals if they need help. Once criticism of a home I visited recently was that they were so short staffed that meals were just placed in front of residents who were unable to feed themselves properly and they weren't helped to eat if they needed it. Short staffing can be a big issue in homes. Talk to staff from the matron down and get a general impression of what they are like and whether they are treated well enough themselves and get enough time to do a proper job. Oh and homes that have some kind of connection with the local community, such as having local primary kids in to do carol singing etc, can often be quite good.
I don't know anything about the funding aspect I'm afraid but I'm sure someone else will be able to help.
Hope this all helps but if I can think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Don't know much, but am in much the same position. All nursing homes are private, but the state may pay all or part of the weekly fees, which may be £800 pw +!!!! This is means tested, and the DWP will base it on stuff like savings and the value of a home. They can't force a sale if your mum lives in it too (I think). Basically you need to look around homes much as though you were choosing a boarding school for a child: gardens, attitudes to own possessions etc, social life (if appropriate) medical care, what they will do if his needs increase, etc etc etc.

Your mum may want to cope with him at home but it may not be appropriate for her. When choosing homes, consider location: where he lives now so that friends can visit, or nearer to you and family so that you can visit? The latter might mean that mum sells up and moves closer to you.... It goes on and on. If you don't do anything the HA can move him to a home or to a halfway convalescent unit, but you then won't have much say in their choice. So my advice is 'get involved' and Help the Aged is brilliant with advice on what to look for. HTH and you get something sorted.

Unquiet dad - sorry about your dad I don't really know much but really wanted to bump for you.
My dad was in a nursing home relatively young - 60 and did not have to pay until he would have reached retirement age. They can be as good places - the one my dad was in was quite good but it was hard visiting sometimes .
Hope you get more advice on choosing a home etc. Good luck

Don't know if dementia is a factor but ruby has posted a great link in this thread

Just to be clear, my dad is well past retirement age!

Not dementia but thanks anyway, I am sure that link will be useful to others.

Fauve is right - age concern were brilliant when I phoned them up about my mum

I think that this might be the English equivalent of Scotland's Care Commission

Am boggling at £800 per WEEK.

Having nightmares about how mum would pay it, and at thought of siblings and me needing to contribute ourselves, and the various negotiations about salaries, incomes, ability to pay, other dependants, etc, which this would entail....

So the "better off" you are (savings, house etc) the more you pay?

Therefore if you spent your life being a work-shy slob spending your Giro on fags and the Lottery, you get it all paid for?...

Yup, that's the scandal. Plus the fact that you keep on paying till you've got nothing left - then the NHS start paying. (I think.)

We simply won't be able to afford it. And yet the judgement will probably be that we can.

One lady that i used to care for said to me that she wished she had spent all her money enjoying herself whilst she was able to as the nursing home fees had taken it all.It is very very unfair .

bogwobbit has linked to the regulator for care homes. all the inspection reports are on there. if you start looking, start with the reports.

another option but it would be depandant on your father's physical and mental health may be a warden controlled property , where he could live in a self-contained flat with wife within a community of people with similiar issues / circumstances and have an emergency system in place. these services are few and far between but you may be lucky. - the cost of this is cheaper than first option but it does focus on independant living rather than care.

Only that they always smell of cabbage.

On a more serious note my friends nan was in a bupa one and she said itv was vv nice but i can imagine it would come with a vv nice price tag too. MIL worked in one that was nice, only 8 rooms in a beautiful old house but again price would probably be high.

and trust your instincts - it's a bit liike choosing a school - it can just "feel" right or wrong in my experience

If you see a lot of non-caring staff, as in not carers but cleaners etc, that is actually a GOOD thing, as it frees the carers up to be with the residents. Also a lot of people complain when they see carers sitting having a cup of tea in the dining room. This is also, strangely, a GOOD thing. If they are near the residents when they are having their tea break they can respond to them immediately. Unlike in some places where they all hide out the back fagging.

the less pee smell the better, obviously, but it can be impossible to completely clear it. Pop in at meal time. Is the food nice? Are they being offered a choice? Are they able to eat it? Are they asked where they want to go after meals or are they just taken to the lounge? Is there fruit on the tables?

Speak to the staff - don't jusrt judge by appearances because it is a dirty job and trainers are the safest and most comfortable things to wear. Are the staff very young? do they seem kind? are they thick?

try for a councel or SS run home - they are fgenerally much better than private ones.

I can only tell you what happened in my dad's case.
During the last 3 years my dad has been in a couple of homes where the fees have ranged from £400 to £1000 a week. His contribution is based solely on his income,savings etc as once you go into a home you are classed as a single person.
In his case they take half of his monthly private pension (the other half goes to my mom) and all of his state pension minus a personal allowance of roughly £18 a week (for toiletries, clothes etc). He didn't have any savings. The shortfall (which has been substantial in both cases) is made up by the PCT
The house cannot be taken into account yet as my mom lives there but, as it is in my dad's name alone, should anything happen to mom we will be required to sell it. This is so unfair as she is probably maintaining and insuring the home for the PCT's benefit in the long term.
I don't know how joint savings are treated but they cannot take your mother's own savings or income into account nor ask for you and your siblings to contribute.
This is a horrible thing to have to go through and I hope you get things sorted quickly and easily

I've not read throught the whole thread but ask at the hospital to see their Social Worker. He/she will be able to advise you as to where to start. Also the CSCI website is a good point to start in looking at what homes are in the area that could cater for your dads needs.

I partly know what you're going through as we went through this with my father a few months ago. We started to look into care homes and how all the system worked but then the decision was made that with intensive physio and adaptations he could come home. Its tough knowing where to start isn't it?

Also -your mum shouldn't worry as if she is living in their house (as in your parents house) the value of that will not be taken into account when they assess their financial sitaution. She will not be left homeless (I think this was my Mums worry )

I am ward manager of an elderly care ward so have experience from the other side. As previously said, speak to social worker at the hospital and they will give you advice. i don't know how poorly your dad is but he may be eligable for continuing care if his needs are complex. But they are not particularly open in offering this. Also as previously mentioned the house is not taken into account as your mother lives in it. It may a case of top up fees. Also dependent on your dad's needs whether he will be residential or nursing needs. Also if he was relatively well before it may be an option to have him home with carers coming in. We discharge very complex patients home with the right support. Just don;t be pushed into anything you and your family don't want.