please help - what should we do about this <blank> house?

[serenequeen]

here is the situation.

some of you may know that we have been attempting to move house for quite a while (previously discussed on mumsnet, but i can't find the thread now).

we told the estate agents and our solicitors some while ago that if we hadn't exchanged contracts by 4th June we would have to postpone our move until October (due to the fact that i'm currently nearly 33wks pg - baby due at end july) - wanting to allow 4 wks between exchange and completion to make sure the stress on us (we have a toddler as well) was minimised.

our buyers have had trouble with their buyers and to cut a long story short are now running behind schedule. last week we reluctantly agreed to move our deadline to this friday 11th june. have just been told by the estate agent that they will not be able to exchange contracts this friday, but will "definitely" be able to do it by next friday, leaving us 2 wks between exchange and completion. of course there is no guarantee whatsoever that we would be able to exchange next week either.

needless to say i'm getting a lot of pressure from the estate agent to agree to this - e.g. it's very usual (he says) to have only this amount of time between exchange and completion. i'm getting irritated by the hard sell, by the lack of understanding of our situation (most people aren't in an advanced state of pg with difficulty walking some days) and by the fact that we are getting this grief even though we have been consistent right from the outset about what our needs were in terms of timing. that's the sale of our house.

on the purchase side, we are ready to exchange subject to agreement on the fixtures and fittings (also discussed before on mumsnet - can't find that one either) and to consideration for items highlighted from the building survey needing immediate attention.

the seller has been quite adamant from the outset that they are taking most things with them (including the bath from the second bathroom) and what they are leaving they are charging hefty prices for. so far they have refused to consider lowering the price of the house in consideration for a breached damp course and woodworm infestation (house not already priced to reflect that this type of work might need to be done).

dh and i have estimated the costs of not coming to agreement on either of these things and think the additional cost to us would be in the region of £15,000. since we also have my maternity leave to fund for 3m, i'm very reluctant to raid our savings for this much money, especially as we had earmarked it for improvements of our own, not for just making the place habitable, iyswim.

so wise mumsnetters, should i give them the extra week, pull out now, or stick to our plan b of potentially moving in october? (of course our buyer and seller might call the whole thing off if we don't move till october).

thanks in advance

ps - has anyone else noticed they can't find things on search atm?

all these comments so far have been very useful - but i'd certainly appreciate more. TIA

We're in the process of selling and buying also, our buyers house sale has just fallen through, the house we want is being put back on the market and so is ours...
STRESS!
The issues that your potential house has plus the bull headedness of the vendors (taking the bath ffs? I'd be expecting them to bend over BACKWARDS to sell that house, it has had subsidence which usually makes a house unsellable and uninsurable to boot.
I'd be getting very cold feet, I think I would have flung hands up diva style and screamed no way when the fixtures and fittings list came through on yours...

I think if you wrote a list of pros and cons including taht it is not your dream house needs a load of work on it is causing you stress etc then you may be able to work out what you and your dh want to do. Do you not want to upset vendor by pulling out?

I think I agree with bettys and freckle, sq, I don't like the sound of the people you're buying from either. Blimey, do they want to sell or not? I know it has been a seller's market but there have been headlines everywhere recently about a slowdown in prices etc. I know it makes no difference if you're buying in the same market though. Hmm. taking a bath sounds very odd, is it a special roll top antique or something? I think it sounds as if it could be a very expensive mistake, (if it is a mistake) given that it's not the house of your dreams and given the potential problems. Dd crying so got to go but will come back later, do have more to say!

thanks piffle and gothicmama.

gothicmama, i'm not sure i understand you. house moves are famously stressful, so i'm not sure the fact that we are finding this stress is per se a reason to walk away. no it is not our dream home, but then i have big dreams and a limited budget! the layout of the house is exactly what i want. i can only afford this much space in a not very good area. property in london is a compromise. or does everyone think you should hang on for your dream house? interesting. don't misunderstand, i'm not trying to be awkward, and i'm grateful for your pov.

yep, i'd be worried about the insurance excess too.

www, thanks also, posts crossed, do come back with more opinions

Think what I am trying to say is - is the stress worth the house you are thinking about buying - ie is it perfect for you can you make it into your dream home if yes then go for it and find solutions to all the obstacles in your way

Also seeing as they are taking the bath and the insurance excess have you tried to reduce the price you are paying I would have thought a bath was the least you would expect to have in abathroom perhaps get the money off the price of house to put new one in

How about telling them that unless exchange takes place next Monday (doesn't have to be a Friday) and completion takes place on the Friday of the following week then you'll pull out? You have to be sure that you'll follow through - idle threats get you nowhere when dealing with estate agents I'm afraid. You'll also have to be prepared to lose the house if it comes to it but as it doesn't seem to be your dream house then why not give it a go. Don't forget - the estate agent will be selling a load of old bullsh*t to everyone involved and may be that the thought of losing his commission is enough for him to get things moving. The other alternative is just to pull out right now and then perhaps the sellers will come grovelling back with a lower price. Again, you have to be prepared to lose the house but they do sound like they deserve a kick up the bum!

Firstly, so sorry you are in the thick of this. Horrid, horrid, horrid - but I'm afraid i think it's inevitable when buying and selling simultaneously!
Firstly, am I right in thinking the vendors want to be up and off quickly now that school exams are coming to a close? That means that from now on they are going to feel under pressure to sell to you, doesn't it? I might have missed something, but if you give your buyers the leeway to get their act together, time will be even tighter, and THEN, at the very last minute, what would you lose by saying to the vendors 'Take off the damp/woodwork ££ and we exchange tomorrow, if not, good bye.' (and then either stick to it, or not!) Did your survey price the house on, over or under the offer price?

Two weeks could be handleable, if you can get a removal firm to pack.

I know what you mean about the area / house / affordability factor for that particular house - it is a rarity. An alternative for house/space could be W Norwood, but it's less 'handy'.

sq, they are taking the p*ss, really, it's not your pregnancy hormones telling you this! I think you should pull out of the purchase, it's just going to end up costing you too much money. And something closer to your dream hom could appear any time. Good luck!

Oh you poor thing - btdt and that's why I'm living in a rented place at the moment. (Though I do love it and it did turn out to be completely for the best). Our vendors were being v. obstructive- had agreed all along that they would be renting and changed their minds 2 weeks before our completion date unless we paid lots more. 2 days after we told them to stuff it the housewas back on the website at 30k more than we'd agreed. It's still there 2 months later
My gut feeling would be to pull out - I sort of think that if something is being that stressful, then it's a sign it's not actually meant to be. And if you don't have to move when very pregnant I wouldn't - it is honestly so much easier to deal with 2 children than it is to deal with a toddler and a huge bump. And it will be a lot easier to do building work when they are both at nursery than when you have a small baby. How much longer could you survive for in your current home?

Hi serenequeen, horrible situation to be in at the moment,
IME two weeks would be enough (but minimum ) time between exchange and completion. I would tell them this and stick to it.
Your purchase sounds like a bit of a nightmare to be honest, if the cost of the work isn't reflected in the price, then it should be. The subsidence issue would be a worry as it could seriously put others off if you wanted to sell. Have you had a full structural survey done to ensure that there are no more potential problems with the subsidence? My understanding is that if you had this and there was subsequently a subsidence problem you could sue the surveyor, which might get around the excess problem.
Personally I wouldn't touch it - I have a flat that I can't sell because the insurance is suspended due to subsidence in another part of the block.
Do you want the house enough to risk being unable to sell it?

..not to mention the vendors sound like right bs

Good luck whatever happens - hope the whole process is as least stressful as possible under the circumstances...

for imminent(ish) arrival of lovely new baby

subsidence is serious is it historic or ongoing?

Huge amounts of sympathy for what's happening. I think if you threaten to pull out and sound serious all of a sudden your buyer's problems might well get sorted - I did this, faxes flew round the was ready. As everyone else has said 2 weeks between exchange and completion should be fine, our removal company works by booking a date provisionally then changing it if completion is delayed. But, I am not convinced that you feel the new house is the right one for you. The subsidence bit would put me off as I would be worried about selling it again, also moving anywhere which needs work doing with a tiny baby can be very stressful. I don't know if it's just me but all of the houses we've bought I've always known that it was the right choice. We did pull out of one when I first found out I was pregnant (too small) but the one we bought instead I had no doubts about, the same goes for the other 3 since that one.

I think I'd be tempted to give your buyers another week but make it clear that the deal's off if they aren't ready to exchange on the day you specify. A week shouldn't make that much difference and utilities can definitely be sorted out that quickly. However, I'd get aggressive with the people you're buying from I think but I'm fully aware that I'd only be doing this in a cutting my nose off to spite my face kind of way: they would have pissed me off so much by now with their attitude that I'd just want to tell them to eff off. Purely for the pleasure of it! Dp would most likely talk me out of it, were I in your situation though If you can face losing it I wonder if it's worth haggling big time and being prepared to walk away if they won't compromise. You could write making it very clear what reduction you're asking for and why - it may well be that they've come up against this before when trying to sell and they'd love you to just exchange and cave in on all fronts. But Blu's plan sounds like a VERY good one to me, could you face that? Since your place is manageable at least you could then wait until October. It is easier IMO having 1 child and 1 small baby than having 1 child and being very heavily pregnant so you may find you're more capable of dealing with this in October. Do let us know what you decide won't you? Hope you're otherwise feeling OK.

I think I'd pull out if it weren't my dream house or close to being it. It sounds a nightmare. What are the vendors thinking of?? It's perfectly reasonable to expect money off wrt things like subsidence and major repairs and as for taking the bath... ! The subsidence would be a major worry for me.

I'm afraid that the subsidence issue would put me right off.I nearly viewed a house that had subsidence problems & the agents said that we wouldn't be able to live in the house whilst the repair work was carried out.With a small baby,there was no way I wanted to pay rent as well as for the building to be done.

Also,a friend of mine has recently had work started on her house for the same problem & once the render was taken off,you could see the bricks just collapsing.

The people you are buying off sound like complete a.I would call their bluff & threaten to pull out.We had to do this when we bought our house & the vendors wanted another few weeks 1 week before we were due to move.It worked.

I really hope things get sorted out fast for you.

oh thank you, thank you, everyone! just off to bed now so only time for a couple of points.

am regretting saying it is not my "dream house" - think this has just proved a distraction from the real issue. it is as close to my dream as i will be able to afford in london i think! can't afford the £5m it would take to buy along the same lines in chelsea or the £2m it would take in richmond... but that is not to say we are so attached we couldn't walk away...

we have had a full building survey done - the subsidence was caused by a tree growing too near the house, which has since been removed. the damage has been repaired and stabilised. the surveyor commented on this and said there was no further evidence of subsidence. however as far as the insurance co is concerned a claim is a claim is a claim - they have seen the building survey and won't be budged from their position, it is a blanket policy.

thanks very much everyone

ps - am inclined to agree that (1) we could manage perfectly well logistically with an interval of 2 wks - but could we manage the stress? and (2) the previous subsidence claim is the main issue on our purchase.

well if the subsidance is only a paper issue then perhaps negotiate with sellers re: bath and additional insurance excess+ anything else that has come to light in survey / since and go for a reduction in price good luck

Hi serenequeen, I really sympathise, though we are not in a chain, we are currently attempting our first house buy, and I'm due in August, we also have a toddler.
The last property we tried to buy fell through after we signed in preparation for exchange! This house also had a subsidence record (one previous claim), we found out that the current insurers of the property have to continue to insure it for the new owners if they wish. The insurers already with the property made a very reasonable offer considering every other company we had called for a quote did little but sneer! I don't know if you have already tried this possibility, but the estate agents should be able to provide the details of the company currently insuring the house.
TBH, we were initially very dissapointed when the buy fell through, but in hindsight, and having received advice from my uncle (an architect) we feel we actually had a lucky escape, BUT the subsidence problems weren't caused by a tree! Plus, the vendor had been unable to provide guarantees for the work done in rectifying the problem either.
We are now exchanging on another property, possibly similarly to you, the house is better, the area not so good, but we are being priced out of the market by the week as prices in our area are flying up. We feel happy now that we are buying the current house .
I have no idea if any of this is any help! I really hope it works out well for you, and I think I would be tempted to give the buyers of your house one last chance and slightly shorten the time you would allow between exchange and completion to compensate.
Fingers crossed for you!

hi levanna, that's another thing the estate agent was pressuring us to do, find another insurance co or use the same one as our vendors are using now. unfortunately, our mortgage deal requires b&c insurance from them (i've checked it out and it is an all around good deal, so i've been happy with that condition), so if we try to change insurers now, i'd have to start from scratch with the mortgage too.