Can I have a definitive answer to "what is the cheapest - time switch or leaving the boiler on all the time" please?

[WhizzBangCaligula]

Is there a definitive answer?

Everyone's horrified that I'm leaving my boiler on all the time (just turning it down at night and up again in the morning) but I keep reading/ hearing that that is the cheapest. Then people look horrified and I get uneasy.

Who knows?

On duty again tonight I see Hub...have you opened your tinny.. it's looking like you are on duty for the long haul
I'll ask the bar if they do home deliveries.. what's your poison?

100f in Sydney today I think....

It'll have to be one of those stupid elderflower conconctions - I don't drink !

100f eh... nice.

He he hub. I am the techno person in this house. The only thing that stumps me is recording from the freeview box.......any ideas?

OK this is the 130th post on a boiler thread.

Just thought I'd let you all know.

buy an integrated freeview hard drive recorder ?

I don't have Freeview (I don't really like telly, but I'll succumb shortly no doubt, I am sure CBeebies will be my salvation)... but don't you just antenna in > freeview > anntenna out to VCR in > VCR out to TV ?

It's tragic, isn't it Caligula.

Have you checked your head ?

You'd think so wouldn't you but it's all in the tuning and it ain't working. Unless you like a recording of a blue screen. It doesn't help having blimmin dvd and PS2 connected aswell and not enough scart connections.

Anyway .......I digress......get back to Boilering.

Hub - we're hoping to get a shower fitted sometime soon - my DM keeps wittering on about getting a thermostatey type thing fitted at the same time. Do you think it will cost a lot to get one fitted? I'm assuming you know because you seem to know everything else boiler related...

Haven't checked my head yet, am working myself up to that...

It's tempting to make some kind of joke with regards to how good your head is, but that wouldn't be my style.

Flossam - a thermostat itself is cheap. £10 for a simple one or £60 for a really nice programmable one... the expense is in running the wire, making good afterwards, connecting it to the boiler circuit board in the right place etc. etc. That is also why WIRELESS programmable stats are SO bl00min clever... you wire a receiver box to the boiler (right next to it), but the transmitter can go anywhere IYSWIM.

i am to admit but given that we moved in july and have since been giving our boiler situation a great deal of thought, i've actually found this thread interesting reading and very informative thanks to hub2dee

aww ty hub2dee....we shall see about that thermostat then....seeing that all those lovely BG engeneers we have had in to fix that darn boiler umptiest times this year were asking where ours was, lol....but they never told me or dh that it would be more efficient, and as we are not with BG for gas or electricity they wouldn't have made a loss for their company, lol!

ho-kay...
have had a look. my combi boiler (one year old) has a timer switch, a dial for the hot water which is on full and a dial for the central heating which is on to maybe a quarter of the way round. there is an lcd screen (actually not lcd but you took the piss out of my flashy lights so for the purposes of this post let it be lcd) in the middle of the contril panel, which reads 36, 37 or 38 depending on how it feels. the numbers change a lot.

whatdoesthisallmean?

and what should my radiators be set to? i think they're mostly at about 3. we have a frost free setting as well. all the rads are brand new (quite swanky tube things if i say so myself). but one of them must be set to either two or four as it hisses alarmingly at three. so if you could just explain everything about everything that would be great. perhaps you should set up a premium rate phone line, hub, there's clearly a market for a man who knows his way round an old (or new) boiler...

Thanks lk (If this has been useful try archive searching my name and Honeywell or thermostat or stat or whatever and you might find a few other (probably quite similar ) threads.

Aitch - 1) I'm surprised your hot water dial needs to be up so high. Isn't your kitchen sink tap HORRIBLY hot ? (I hate it when the hot water comes out so hot you can't actually wash your hands without getting burnt). 2) If your hot water however ISN'T so friggin warm, could this 36 / 37 / 38 be the temp of the hot water ? (A nice bath is 39 - 41 degrees c). I have no idea what those (changing) numbers might be. Post the make and model of the combi, I can probably find it online.

About three on the rads is just fine. You can fix the hissy one by looking at it out of the corner of your eye and thwacking it one. The diaphragm seat wobbles a bit and they go quiet. Either that or turn it minutely one way or t'other. HOWEVER.... I expect that you might have the RADIATOR CIRCUIT turned up to max on the boiler (which is why you are happy having your rads on 3), and your HOT WATER CIRCUIT on a quarter which is why it reads 36 - 38 (which is a little on the low side for hot water IYSWIM !).

hth

From what I've read Legionairre's is only a risk of the water doesn't get heated above 46 deg. C. The eco-advisers (I heard this on Radio 4, so must have some truth to it??) are now saying to heat to 50-55 deg. C to be sure to avoid Legionaire's, shouldn't even need as high as 60.

Thanks Hub - will ask my trustworthy and helpful plumber whenever we get shower done!

no, if i turn the radiator dial up then the flashy lights go up too so i think they are connected. it's just that i don't know what the flashy lights refer to.
i think the heat of my water is to do with the fact that i wanted a half-decent water pressure on hot and that i wanted it set to a non-scald temp. if you run the water hot it will hurt like buggery but won't actually tear yoru skin off, so i'm happy to leave it. it's the thermostat (or lack thereof)that i don't get. do all the rads just control themselves individually? seriously hub, how do you know so much abou tboilers. (it's a vokera series 7 i think. certainly a vokera). you weirdo.

OK, the flashy lights is called 'digital display' (woohoo) in the USER MANUAL. Have you thought of looking in the USER MANUAL ?

I've actually found it ONLINE, here at \link{(vokera.co.uk} (click Linea 7 under standard condensing IIRC).

To be clear, for you, in the far North of Great Britain, "flashy lights" does not mean a red or green LED going "flash, flash" but a number readout, right ? From what I can tell in the USER MANUAL it displays the temp of the circuit you are adjusting. If you turn up the rad temp knob, and these numbers increase you are increasing the temp of your rad circuit ! The numbers refer to the temp of the water in the pipes serving, and running through, your rads.

"The variable hot water thermostat allows you to
set the temperature of the water to your hot wa-
ter taps between 37.5°C (min) and 65°C (max)."

"The variable heating thermostat allows you to set
the temperature of the water to your radiators be-
tween 40°C (min) and 80°C (max). switch off automatically."

If you're happy with your water temp, that's great. The heat will actually increase if you throttle back the flow (ie opening the tap only a little will typically yield hotter water as the flow through the boiler is so slow IYSWIM).

Re: lack of thermostat - I think whoever specced / designed your system simply decided to use a timer plug in module, and to adjust the heat output of the rads using TRVs on each one rather (or instead of or as well as) having a 'stat on the wall. I wouldn't have gone that route, but I am not s/he.

The TRVs on each rad do indeed control the temperature of each rad individually. When they are on 5 or 6 (ie max) they will allow as much of the (hot) water in the pipe through as possible. When they are on * or 1 or whatever, they will throttle it back (as necessary) to only keep the rad luke warm IYSWIM. By balancing all the rads just so, and by speccing the boiler correctly for your size of house / flat / castle / bungalow, the house will be more or less spot on. The thermostat in the hall would simply give you better control (so you could choose the CHANGE the house temp in the AM / PM / overnight / if no one's in / if you go on holiday etc. more easily.

hth and is clear.

Oh, and I don't know an AWFUL lot about boilers, but I do like to read the user manual and have a surf about boiler probs when I have them etc. so I guess I'm selft taught, and plus, as I mentioned, my dad is a big boiler geek.

I have been reading this with great interest

I wonder how my (soon to be installed) central heating will deal with all the lashing lights and techno babble

I am having a wood fired stove with a back boiler to make hot water and centralheating....I'm so excited

Then the only electric will be in the conservatory......underfloor heating - lovely but very expensive- that have thermostats, timed settings and a small mortgage to pay for it all

Hopefully with the lounge door open we will keep it a bit warm I am considering a chimney heat exchanger or an extractor fan to redistribute the heat

bless you, hub. [bows appreciatively]

Enough bowing... did it make any sense / was it any use ?

Stay warm !

katymac - I'm surprised you didn't go the geothermal route LOL.

I might for the nursery

well it did, yes, in that i am now going to have a look for the user manual. my real question is... that 37-38 figure, is it excessively high? or low? would i be better having the rads at a lower setting and the boiler at a higher one, or vice versa.

(you know, this is what i thought having a husband would be like.)

pmsl. A virtual husband sounds ideal from what I see on a lot of threads LOL. No socks to transport to the dirty washing basket either.

The user manual is online, you don't even need to tidy up your slattern's den of a utility room (if that's where the Vokera beast is) to find it.

37 - 38 IMHO is a little low for hot water and a little low for rad temp. However, if all works, just leave it and graze on some G&B. If, however, you'd like to make sure you are not being wasteful, you could try turning up the rad temp for a few days and seeing if that makes you any more comfortable (you might need to tweak the TRVs); alternatively you could even try turning the rad temp DOWN (and adjust the TRVs again) as IIRC you have it on quite high, and you could just twiddle the TRV in the living room / master bed etc. to be more comfortable.

Sorry I can't tell you precisely what to do, but that's the cost of female emancipation.

it does all work... it's all toasty, tbh. i'm thinking of turning it down.

DH's bet came in at 50-1, by the way.
but he only had a couple of quid on it.