Is where you live very socio-economically polarised?

[UnquietDad]

What I mean is, are there "good" areas and "bad" areas which everyone automatically recognises in your city/town/suburb/village, or is it much of a muchness? Are there certain areas where "professional" classes wouldn't live if you paid them?

I live in one of the UK's biggest cities and it's always amazed me that somewhere can be so "ghetto-ised" in the 21st century. Even if you hate to stereotype, you can often work out which part of the city (broadly) somebody lives in just by knowing a little information about their family, work etc - often just by hearing them speak, if I'm honest. And if that sounds awfully snobbish, it's not meant to - it's just that the vast majority of the "southerners" who have come here for work, usually professionals, all clump together in the one tight corner of the city where the house prices are at their most stand-up comedy and the schools are at their most "desirable". There seems to be little attempt, or need, or desire, for social integration.

Racially, too, it's very segregated - there is a big Chinese community, almost all in one area, and a big Asian community, again almost all in one area. I was looking around the other day while waiting outside DD's school and it struck me for the first time that it is 100% white.

We often get letters in the paper about how the better-off areas are losing out because they are not eligible for extra funding, are not the Council's priority, etc. etc. These really wind me up. There was one the other day about a park needing new equipment. Yes, it's a crying shame that there is a park in one of the most sought-after areas of the city where the equipment is falling to bits, and yes, it probably isn't top of the Council's list to get it fixed. The REAL scandal is the fact that such disparities exist between diferent parts of the city in the first place - you don't see people from the better-off areas writing in to decry that, and offering to spread a bit of their wealth around. It would be nice if they expressed such concern when it came to the differences in standards of the various schools across the city, or the higher insurance paid by people in less "safe" areas. But no.

Sorry to go on a bit. I imagine this will attract views...

UD.. I live in S10....It's where I grew up! You can hate me now!

Some but not many at all will trade down like that.

I live in a village that is generally not very diverse - think it is too small. Yes some people are richer than others but that does not necessarily go street by street. A small minority educate their children privately but that is quite a hassle because the private schools are not close by. Otherwise just about everyone goes to the only village school - one or two may go to the school in the adjacent village because it is CofE or because it has an afterschool club. There are other villages around with a similar profile. Probably 99% of people are white as well. In DS's school there are 2 mixed race (black/white) children from different families and that is it.

But I suppose in the borough as a whole the situation is different. There is a black population and a large Asian population. One of the 7/7 bombers was from our borough. But TBH he could have really have been from a thousand miles away to us cocooned in our little village.

I do take your point UQD. I'm not being devil's advocate exactly, but I suppose I am trying to put across the selfish side of being a parent as well as the nice side.

On the positive side, once people have children they do mix with a wider section of the population than they did before (toddler groups, ante natal groups, outpatient clinics, schools etc etc). It does make them review any silly prejudices.

On the negative side, the lioness/lion instinct seems to drive them to seek the safest, most cocooned environment in which to bring up their children. At least it does in a lot of cases.

I remember seeing on TV that Sheffield was the most polarised city in the UK, and so I suppose I am talking from a very different standpoint. In London, you just cannot ever get very far away from social problems and rough areas - we are all a bit of a melting pot. Which I suppose I quite like and is one of the reasons I want to stay here.

So I am happy to accept your viewpoint that the polarisation where you live is extreme, and that is undesirable. What is the answer?

so tell us then u.dad
would you trade down your kids school,your home,your "safe area" for your social leaning?
an whats that about 4x4s?
in an earlier thread you talk abut sterotypes...er that would be you then
why is it so bad to do your best?

"On the positive side, once people have children they do mix with a wider section of the population than they did before (toddler groups, ante natal groups, outpatient clinics, schools etc etc). It does make them review any silly prejudices."

Do you think so, GQM? I'm not convinced. I think it just makes people more enrtrenched and protective of their social groups.

cowmad, I'm nor saying I have any answers. I started this thread as an observation. I don't know where along the line this business about "trading down" came into it..... I have no intention of going to live on a council estate to make a political point. I was just wondering if anywhere else was as polarised as my city. I think a few people have answered that.

oohh ok then!!just thought for a min u were going to start on people for doing their best for themselves and their kids..
I have a 4x4 aswell!!for the muddy dog and the flooding road that I live near!
I also park on yellows to pick up kids as the police put yellows there to earn extra money(imo)
and there is simply nowhere else to park...but there is rarely any problems as we are all in the same boat at our school
I also live in a higly priced semi rural area.I was born here. In addition I reserve the right to do as I please as long as I pay for it with my hard earned money.

The thing with 4X4's is that there are some people (eg those near flooding roads) who can make sense of them, but the majority...

ask any of the many Mums at our school why they drive them and they'lls ay they live in the country. Well they live in the next village which is purely reached by A road, is that really the same thing? Then they clog up the roads with huge vehicles (usually with one child in) and (Can you guess we had this today? LO ) complain bitterly that the traffic wardens give them tickets.

Last year I was hit by a car parked on the lines outside school, had it been a 4X4 or indeed if I hadn't sshifted my toddler faster we'd be a child down. Apparently though, that's just social bias if I use that argument.

We come from Somerset and frequently spend time on farms when we're sown there, a 4X4 would be handy but on balnce not needed. So don't get the road runners who NEED them ne bit

sorry. rant over

poor you, peachy!

Enough evidence I think of the need/location of yellow lines (just there to make money for the police indeed! I so hate that "car-drivers rule" mentality and sod everyone else!)
Cowmad, cdn't you park round the corner/get to school earlier or hell walk or take public transport instead?

walk to school darn it

I haven't read all this thread - though i will come back later.

I have been learning how ghettos are created and maintained through the experience of trying to help a relative rent near me. She has a tiny income and has to claim housing benefit - the local agents won't consider renting to her unless we can cough up 6m rent in advance and we think the only places we will find where she can rent more easily will be crack dens in the rough parts of the nearest town - iykwim! which is an easy way to keep so called 'benefit scum' out of your area and as social housing is totally over subscribed so she will have to wait 5 years for a home that way...

oh and cowmad, none of us "deserve the right to do as we please because we've earned it!" - we're all members of society, we should all show some consideration for others- those (few I suppose?) mums who try to walk to school for example?. It's not a matter of money but it is a pathetic demonstration of showing off to think that driving a 4x4 shows to the world how hard you've worked, how much money you have etc etc. This has been debated as nauseum on MN (still some people will never learn )

PC, In the town where you live the kids come to youth club with £20 notes to cover their 50p 'subs' and have been known to tell youth workers to F* off as they are just poor scum to be doing such a shite job!! the scum workers are probably in the middle of BA degree course at the uni!!

Some-one said earlier that discipline is the issue,I agree, discipline and respect for others needs to taught to children from all backgrounds. (And I'm a Guardian reading softie!!)

agree on the discipline and respect, that's why parking on pavements/illegally outside schools gets to me! it could kill little children, for christ sake (oh, but I'm sure everyone who does this on MN is a good driver so would magically never put anyone at risk and )

I'll get off my high-horse now. So where's this socially divisive town you're both talking about anyway?

Funnily enough Earthy I'm not so much poor (or rather on most peoples terms not even slightly) i'm a student.

They were doing ooh bet the police are getting their Christmas bonus line today-erm no, its a traffic warden and she is protecting the kids (one actually aprked across where the lollipop lady is last week.... just stopped and got out)

Gem13-I live in Wales where 4x4's are used for driving on muddy tracks off road

in answer to ran to the hills
school is approx 3.5 miles away and certainly NOT an A road,but a very windey country road and we go through a ford which is flooded approx 4 months of the year.
there are double yellows on both sides of the road for a considerable distance by our school,
we have a large car park which more than allows for us all to park but parents
(reception ones who havnt learned ropes yet!) park so badly,or simply drop off an block the flow whilst they do their goodbyes,get their bags/violins etc.
this takes some mins they think 2mins in fact its nearer 5 mins.selfish yes toughtless yes,but my children have had it drilled in to them not to be late,
so yes i pull up on to the verge by the yellow lines.
once in a while the cops come down and issue tickets and bump up their revenue.this is not a hard pressed police area so they dont have much else to do ..
I still of course remain of the opinion that I will do as i please with my hard earned was with reference to my car and my house.
my 4x4 is no STATEMENT of my wealth,far from it!!I have a very mucky gundog that comes with us everywhere!my man needs it on sundays when he takes the dog and goes off shooting.
also as part of my "community" I give a lift to several children that live in our road to school and cos they like to see the dog.i dont mind im going there anyway!
can i add its also 8 years old washed yearly and has no bull bars or private reg!!

also its VERY narrow minded of you rantothehills to sterotype people this way..
men and women died for my rights and i blo**y well appreciate it
I reserve the right to live where i choose
drive the car i want and need to
as long as I pay for it>....
and i dont have to justify it to YOU...

"I have a very mucky gundog that comes with us everywhere"

Are 4X4s self-cleaning then?

I get the "flooded roads, I need a 4X4" argument but I have never got the "I have a dog, I need a 4X4" argument.

oh, there's cowmad.

thought he/she/it was flouncing.

I have a WORKING gundog...gERRRR!!!
its how we choose to spend our lives!!the back of the car never gets cleaned!!no point

Thanks for sharing, cowmad.

sharing lifts or info expat?

parking outside a school on yellow lines on a windy country road is reprehensible..anyone who lives in a rural environment should be aware how dangerous it is

Forgive my ignorance but why does it make a difference if it is a working gundog? Sorry to UQD for the tangent this thread has taken. Perhaps I need to go to the pets forum to ask this question.

I agree Zippi - but to Cowmad - aren't those people who block the entrance to school carparks, as though the whole car park was built for them and their car alone, bloody annoying.

The same thing happens at the Pre-school where DD goes. No thought is given to the cars that might come in after them so long as they have found a space big enough to abandon their car (or monster truck as the case often is )