Is where you live very socio-economically polarised?

[UnquietDad]

What I mean is, are there "good" areas and "bad" areas which everyone automatically recognises in your city/town/suburb/village, or is it much of a muchness? Are there certain areas where "professional" classes wouldn't live if you paid them?

I live in one of the UK's biggest cities and it's always amazed me that somewhere can be so "ghetto-ised" in the 21st century. Even if you hate to stereotype, you can often work out which part of the city (broadly) somebody lives in just by knowing a little information about their family, work etc - often just by hearing them speak, if I'm honest. And if that sounds awfully snobbish, it's not meant to - it's just that the vast majority of the "southerners" who have come here for work, usually professionals, all clump together in the one tight corner of the city where the house prices are at their most stand-up comedy and the schools are at their most "desirable". There seems to be little attempt, or need, or desire, for social integration.

Racially, too, it's very segregated - there is a big Chinese community, almost all in one area, and a big Asian community, again almost all in one area. I was looking around the other day while waiting outside DD's school and it struck me for the first time that it is 100% white.

We often get letters in the paper about how the better-off areas are losing out because they are not eligible for extra funding, are not the Council's priority, etc. etc. These really wind me up. There was one the other day about a park needing new equipment. Yes, it's a crying shame that there is a park in one of the most sought-after areas of the city where the equipment is falling to bits, and yes, it probably isn't top of the Council's list to get it fixed. The REAL scandal is the fact that such disparities exist between diferent parts of the city in the first place - you don't see people from the better-off areas writing in to decry that, and offering to spread a bit of their wealth around. It would be nice if they expressed such concern when it came to the differences in standards of the various schools across the city, or the higher insurance paid by people in less "safe" areas. But no.

Sorry to go on a bit. I imagine this will attract views...

I live in a small-ish market town which is very polarised. Some roads are definitely much better than others, and are recognised as such not just by locals but also by marketing companies. For instance, some streets get free copies of an upmarket lifestyle magazine, others (like mine) get flyers for a tasteless discount clothing store.

I wasn't aware of the distinctions when we bought this house, as we were new to the town, but it quickly became apparent from the way people reacted when I told them where I live.

UQD as a now Londoner once Sheffielder I think there is an entirely logical explanation as to why southerners clump together in the most expensive part of Sheffield - it's because they can afford it. Also if you don;t know a place well you have very little to go on to identity the benefits of areas other than house-price. same in London - all the white european and north american expats head for Kensington (if they can).

cowmad - not the same place then

But you don't necessarily go for the most expensive area you can afford, do you? or do you?...

I'm a southerner and we didn't.

ok felt sure then that we knew each other in rl!!!understand the animals bit but pleeeaase no cages!!

we didnt go for the most expensive we could afford and i could kick myself now. we really need to move about 3 miles up the road for schools and would need to put about another 30-40k just to get a similar sized house

jampots - isn't that always the way? sigh. Criminal how the SAME house can cost up to 50% more just because of a more "desirable" catchment.

(will also get shot down for this but will be myself)
that extra 30 40 k keeps the shite out
bugger diversity issues..im after the best for my kids...tis my job..hang me!
tis wheeles within wheeles i work harder to be here,i studied harder to be here,i spend harder to be here...i will instil same attitude with my children
i would try my all not to be 10 miles down the road from here,but if i was there i would work my way out...yes i would

ps allways been really bad at spelling!!

I kind of agree with cowmad(?). Before i had children, I would have assumed that I wanted their school to reflect the social diversity of the area I live in.

Now I have them I am terrified that they will grow up thinking that carrying knives are the norm, or similar horror stories.

Let's be honest, who would voluntarily send their children to a school in which a high proportion of children are difficult and disruptive? I blame the complete collapse of discipline in school/home life for the polarised communities.

It may not be best for us all in the long run, but you can see the logic of those fleeing bad areas for better ones. And it has always gone on to some extent.

I guess you're righ UQD, but, in all honesty, the expensive bits of Sheffield are (unsuprisingly) the nicest bits. There are smoe under-rated bits out Oughtibridge way but if you want good schools, easy access to the centre of town, the university, shops, restaurants and - imo Sheffield's main selling point - the Peak District it's going to be Dore or Fulwood everytime no?

Er, no, hatwoman.
There are some just as nice bits elsewhere,without the comedy prices of Dore and Fulwood - including some of those you mention (where I am). Life isn't all in S10, S11 and S17...

cowmad, you may think that's the case, but it also "keeps out" the nice middle-class people who may work in the not-so-well paid areas, e.g. voluntary sector, nursing, creative arts etc - people who would fit in perfectly, and whose children would get on with yours, but who just can't get mortgages for that kind of amount.

don;t be angry! I did say there were under-rated bits. but you can't get into town in under 15 mins from oughtibridge...or can you? I personally don;t like Dore etc much but the location is amazing - I actually lived in the Peak District and went to school in Sheff. and that was a long time ago

I know what you mean UD, I think you are right to say that polarisation is a problem. But I can't see a way of reversing it. Some of the stats about our society are shocking compared to other Western nations. 45% of teenagers spending all their time on the streets instead of at home, discipline in schools, social disintegration.

I could never afford to live in a very good area, but if I could I would. Rich people in 4x4s might get up my nose at times, but they aren't committing crimes and the schools their children go to are generally higher performing.

It is sad, but if you can't beat them, join them.

Yes.

At the top of the hill (where the rest can't see them [angey]) is a huge sprawling council estate filled with people who can't get healthy food coz there's no supermarkeyts, become increasinlgly ghetto-ised etc. At the bottom of the hill (where I am fortunate to live but only because of the disparity between the rpices at home in Somerset and here) its a very posh commuter belt yummy muumy tourist village. We'd been here nearly a ayear before we even SAW the council estate so well hidden is it

its sad, the people on the estate need things like supermarkets and stuff but the people this end have more money / influence and block them 'for the sake of the tourism'

"Rich people in 4x4s might get up my nose at times, but they aren't committing crimes"

Apart from parking on the yellow lines outside school, if dd's primary school is anything to go by.

And probably embezzling and committing fraud and other middle-class crimes.

"and the schools their children go to are generally higher performing."

Yes, because they are self-fulfilling prophecies thanks to "choice".

We seriously considered moving the ds's from the high performing local posh school to the one up the estate, because it was so much nice, could cater for DS1's SN and had a much warmer, more loving atmosphere. Travel distance made us realise we couldn't, but ahd it been closer....

performance is worth surprisingly little in a school that doesn't 'fit'

luckily i have my children in those well performing schools out of catchment hence we will move now to the area. As for keeping the dross out there is no saying that is the case. The only people it keeps out are the ones whose priorites arent education.

As for 4x4 middle class fraud that is an incredibly narrow minded view and one which surprises me from you UQD

"As for 4x4 middle class fraud that is an incredibly narrow minded view and one which surprises me from you UQD"

I should have put a smiley in! I was countering the equally daft clam that people in 4x4s don't commit crimes...

Hang on, I DID put a smiley in!

And it was a daft claim, not a daft clam.
This is a daft clam .

killing the planet - killing my childrens future thats the effin crime.

at least poor people only kill themselves.

hear, hear custy!
love the clam uqd

UQD, I knew the response would be that they are committing white collar fraud. This is trotted out all the time (anyone read Stupid White Men or any of Michael Moore's books?) Are they? IME white collar fraud is just as widespread across all classes and groups.

The fact is that violent crimes against people and property are disproportionately committed on poor people in rougher areas. I can't remember the exact stats, but I remember reading that your chances of having a crime committed against you in a poorer area are something like ten times greater than in a better "postcode". I know someone will pick me up on this, so I had better get digging for the actual stats .

I don't live in a particularly exclusive area, I know there are many hostels and halfway houses round here. I am not a NIMBY, but I do understand why people want to live in a nicer area.

Unless some huge social problems are ironed out, I am sure it will continue. Not many individual people are going to make the decision to trade down their children's potential because of their social conscience. And yes there are some, I used to think I would be one, but not any more.

Well, to be honest some of the women driving the 4x4s at DD's school are committing crimes against fashion. I ought to mention that instead next time.

Of course crime rates are hugely higher in rough postcodes. The Pope's catholic, too, when I last checked. My problem is that there is such a huge disparity that whole areas designated as "rough" can exist - sometimes two or three streest, sometimes whole estates or suburbs. I don't know what the answer is, sadly. Social mobility? Don't think so.