Is there a parent/child at your dc's playgroup whom everybody dislikes?

[bramblina]

Do you just ignore and carry on?
A woman goes to ds's playgroup and has an awful child (2.5yrs) which she has no control over. He throws, pushes, snatches and all he gets is a voice saying "you mustn't push/hit, 'John' it isn't nice" in a similar voice which she would use to ask "would you like milk or juice?" and this dc takes no notice. Occasionally she will use a "naughty area" which said child leaves of own free will and consequently has no idea about discipline.
Today he pushed my ds 3 times for wanting to share (ds is 15months), the 3rd time ds fell against a chair and banged his head, and cried. He wasn't really hurt, just shocked so I made no big deal of it. The 2nd time though I had to tell her as she could see what her child was doing but was doing nothing about it.
Last week he pushed ds twice, once in to a toybox and once against some chairs. He wasn't hurt either time, but that's not quite the point. He also threw some small object towards a boy of 9 months.
Once she leaves everyone rolls their eyes and has quite a few comments. I don't particularly like this but I really don't like how her child behaves. It's going to have some degree of influence as we live in a small community and see each other a few times per week.

What are everyone's experiences of this? Do you ignore it? Hope someone will wallop him back (child)?! Hope he'll grow out of it? He just doesn't seem that sort of child.
My ds has recently become heavy handed and I posted on here, but he's at a different stage- this boy does it on purpose to hurt people.

I'm afraid this situation will just persist until some adult is prepared to exert a bit of authority. DS2's playgroup had a few children like that (one of whom refused to be parted from his plastic knife); I learnt from the experience and found DS3 a playgroup with a dragon playleader. Sadly they're becoming extinct.

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I think at 2.5 he's a bit young to be doing it "on purpose". I wouldn't want to judge really without knowing whether the child had other issues.

he's 2.5 he does not do it "on purpose to hurt people" ... get a grip ... I assume your baby is your eldest .. but this is a 2.5 year old not a child who 'should know better'

he does it because he doesn't know any better and he's testing the limits

can't somebody talk to the mother and ask if she can keep a closer eye on him just till he's through this difficult phase .. or offer to help her keep an eye on him

oh great minds twig

I think it is very sad when a child is labelled as being an 'awful child' at the age of just 2.5.

From the OP it sounds like this child is a victim of poor parenting, and it is sad that this will lead to him being unpopular and excluded unless something is done fairly soon.

If it is a group where the parents stay then perhaps you need to instigate a strict set of rules, where parents must react to conflict in a uniform way - and every child gets a similar consequence for aggressive behaviour.

It it is a group where the parents do not stay, it is up to the staff to enforce boundaries.

I'm glad the OP is keen to deal with this situation in a positive way, and not just join in with the eye rolling and comments.

It is possible that the mother of this boy is actually struggling to parent him effectively, and downplays his behaviour in public because she feels so awkward about it.

Itmight not be por parenting as such- 2.5 s quite young for a naughty step approach- he may just lack the understanding for it.

Poor woman - great move that you all roll your eyes and bitch when she's gone !

IMHO I think it's you guys who have a problem - child is 2.5 - not everyone's child is an angel - cut the woman some slack !

This is exactly why I hate things like playgroups - there's always someone waiting to judge ! and bitch !

There is a biy who's just turned 3 at our toddler group like that though his mother appears to be well liked. I can see exactly why he's like he is and it's down to her parenting and I feel so sorry for him. I always make sure I smile at him and say something to him when he's near me because otherwise he doesn't get the kind of positive interaction that "good" kids get. He actually smiles at me now instead of scowling. If you think everyoe is against you then there's no reason for you to be nice is there. A sad lesson to learn at only 3.

I think you need to be in there with your own child and speak to them both, saying to the other child when appropriate in a calm tone, 'No, (my ds) had that and we have to take turns', or 'No pushing, be gentle with the baby'. He is only two and thought that seems huge when your child is one, it really isn't.
He'll grow out of it. Two year olds are terribly possessive in a way babies just aren't.

Well, my ms was that naughty boy and apparently I am a crap parent for that, and he has behavioural problems apparently...so, he was pretty much labelled the Bully of the M&T and whenever he would do anything everyone was on his case and ready to tell me to do something and to smack him or punish him in some other way, etc....etc...etc....well, in the end I was lucky enough not to have to take ms anymore, due to Playschool...
well, my now 2 year old ys is completely different, more placid, etc....so, no need to stop completely...but it's interesting to watch some of those ex-angels now taking their turn with being terrors...funny enough, because those mums have been here forever and all that (unlike us, we only moved here a year back) no one says anything about those Kids...apparently now it;s normal....grrrrrrrr...o.k.
And it isn't just me that noticed the difference.
I honestly think that in the end ms was just extra wild there (he is always lifely but seemed to behave worse there), because I was so stressed out about it and he sensed it...sigh!
Funny enough, took him a few weeks ago back to that M&T and he was as good as gold...but, well of course no one commented on that....
It really annoys me when people are so quick to label a Kid a troublemaker and the mum/parent useless...grrrrrr...sorry that was a bit of a rant

umm, I think Bramblina is actually trying to help, that's why she said she didn't like the eye rolling behaviour, and why she has come here asking for advice, - not be slated and told to get a grip

JustHumphreys advice sounds great, either speak to the playgroup leader, or try and befriend/without patronising (that's gonna be hard!) this woman so she has some support.

Agree that 2.5 is too little to be demonised,

Thanks everybody. And Twiglett, I have a grip, thanks.

JustHumphrey actually I realise now I chose a bad word for describing this child, "awful" was wrong, and you're right, he is IMHO suffering from bad parenting. Then what would I know, I've never had a 2.5 yr old. He is becoming unpopular and excluded, no-one really makes much of an effort with him or his mother, because of his behaviour. She does react as such when he is particularly naughty, but she clearly has no control and he takes absolutely no notice and I believe her discipline is not teaching him much, at others' expense.

I am "keen to deal with this situation in a positive way, and not just join in with the eye rolling and comments."
Jimjams you're right he just doesn't get it.
Scatterbrain, my child is not an angel and I'm not expecting this boy to be either, and I'm not judging and bitching, I am actually trying to find out how to deal with this as I only have a little experience of playgroups- I'm on here trying to get a broader perspective from those with experience. I'm very aware that my ds may behave like this soon and no I wouldn't like people to criticise me when I leave the room but I like to think I would not let it get out of hand.
Bibliophile, thanks, great words, I do play with them both and ignore as much as I can, but sometimes his mother does need to step in to discipline (as we all would) and I'm hoping from the way I play with them equally he'll realise my ds is not a threat. He seems to react to negative attention and I try to give him some positive to encourage him to play with ds.

I could have just joined in all the eye rolling, sarky comments and let her get on with it. How stupid of me to ask thousands of women if I should ignore it, or do something about it.

Thanks, maltatheterrible.

oh, btw...my rant wasn't so much as you, just genreal frustration pooring out at this, lol!
G;ad you are trying to be positive....befriending the mum and finding therefore out more would probably help, and dependingh on circumstances then, maynbe suggestions or showing thorugh rolemodel!

Oh lol 3anm, I didn't think of it like that. Your post didn't upset me so much. I don't believe anybody is a crap parent if their child behaves in a certain way and it's sad that you felt like this...I guess the way we choose to parent and the child which we actually do parent, don't always mix! I don't think this woman is a bad parent, she is actually trying a damn sight mor ethan others I know but my concern is it just isn't working and of course naturally I'm trying to protect my ds and do the best I can, IYSWIM.

Point the parents in my direction - I could do with some extra xmas money, frankly.

you're right and I apologise for the 'get a grip' comment .. it wasn't meant quite as nastily as it comes across on re-reading .. sorry

I think the thing is that 2.5 year olds do push the boundaries .. some more so than others .. and maybe this child is just at the extreme so the mother is giving up

I remember being the mother of my first baby and thinking gawd why are you letting this hugely old child get away with x, y and z .... can't you see my defenceless baby .... it is only when you turn round from having a child in school and look at 2.5 year olds that you appreciate quite how young they are .. and it is very difficult to get that perspective from the other side

I think you are great for wanting to not join in .. I would imagine there is a reason this woman leaves early ... I'd make a beeline for her and start to chat and see if you can be friends .. once you're friends it is more appropriate to gently help her with her ds

That's my child. He yhas always been the hitter, the pusher, the screamer, the climber, the runner-offer.

I have tried asking nicely, time outs, screaming like a fishwife, sticker charts, positive parenting, not reacting at all, reacting hugely - guess what?

Nothing f*cking works.

I am rapidly approaching the end of my tether, I really try to keep a lid on it in public though, and maybe that is what she is trying to do?

seeing me parent my child might think "She needs to be stricter with that little sod" but I tried that, for a long time, and it doesn't bloody work either.

I reaslly think some kids are just' like that' and you have to wait it out.

Oh I do find this thread rather sad, it takes me back to my feelings of inadequency as a parent when my ds was 2.5 yrs. He's since been diagnosed with special needs, but at the time I felt very much the stares and the tuts of other mothers as they watched me desperately trying to control my ds when he hit yet another child, the amount of times I walked out with my screaming ds crying when I was out of sight of the other 'perfect' mothers. I felt so alone and really would have loved an understanding and helpful mum. Things are not always what they seem, the mother could be at the end of her tether with her little boy, after every strategy she's used to manage her child has failed.

he's 2.5

lots of kids go through this

lots of kids are completley angels at home then act up at playgroup. They are overwhelmed by the noise etc and act out.

Lots of kids are great up to a certain age then go through this.

My money would not be on "poor parenting". It would be on the kid going through a developemental stage. Or being hungry/tired whatever. I had problems with ds at a particular playgroup. I realised that a. it was much too crowded for him and b. it intruded on his nap so he was grumpy. He probably seemed like devil screaming child at this group.

and no, I don't hope anyone will wallop him back. Never. Why? Cos he's 2.5. He's a baby. He doesn't deserve to be walloped.

oh and my ds was a little like this at 2.5

now he's 3. no probls, Angel Child once more, as long as we avoid noise.

oh and that sounded harsh. sorry

there is a kid like this at our local home education group. He's about 3.5. Its very wearing, I know. He is bascially, wild, his mother just wanders off and does feck all all as he beats up the littlies.

But

I always think, ok, this is a PITA for me, esp as he goes for my 16 mo dd (and I mean he would, if not stopped, go up to her and push her over, just like that).

But jeesus, he's probably like this all day! She must be exhausted. Maybe at these groups we can all pitch him and help a bit and give her a breather!

pitch in, I mean, LOL

Unfortunately, the child that is unpopular at our playgroup is my nephew He is 2yr 3months and yesterday he pushed 3 smaller children over (one of them twice), tipped 3 peoples juice onto the floor, pushed someone hard down the slide, stole someones biscuit, pulled DSs hair etc, etc. He is very energetic and sees no fear in anything - he is definitely a handful. My Brother and SIL both work long hours (which I have no problem with) and nephew is shipped out to whoever can watch him that day for free/cheapest offer. He is looked after by someone different every day of the week and has no routine/continuity whatsoever and while I feel he would still be a handful if SIL was a SAHM or he had one main carer I think that the way he is being looked after is definitely exacerbating the problem. I dont think she realises this though.

and I know what 2 year old can be like - I have a 3yr old and an almost 2 yr old!