Increase in transgender children.

[mumtoaninja]

Don't shoot me if this is in the wrong section...I'm fairly new and still trying to navigate my way around!
Anyway, I watched an item on the news today about an increase in the number of transgender children being referred by gps.
My very first thought was is this generational? These days, parents are much more relaxed about what their darling offspring play with. Boys are happily playing with dolls and other 'pink' stuff and girls are playing more rough and tumble 'boys' games than they did maybe 50 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I've never encouraged my children (girl & boy) to play with gender specific toys, however they have both steered towards such toys. DS is mad on action figures/cars/gross stuff whereas my DD loves anything pink and sparkly. Each has had ample opportunity to play with the others toys, also at nursery and play dates but they choose not to. I do know several parents who push dolls and such on boys because 'why shouldn't their boy have a baby doll' etc.
Genuine question - is our new found open-mindedness causing children to grow up feeling confused about their gender?

Rambunctious if your friend feels she was born in the wrong body that means she was born in the wrong sex. Sex and gender aren't the same thing, your post implies they are. Sorry that isnt meant to sound rude if it does, I was just wanted to point that out.

Thank you rambunctious, that is spot on!

Young kids don't know they are trains. The NHS own stats say that the majority of kids who attend gender identity clinics, do not grow up to be trans, although most do grow up to be gay.

Eek and sorry for how badly written that was!

Trans, not trains.

Hobnong Point taken, and no, you weren't sounding rude!

Mariamin, so what? As long as the child gets support in a specialist environment the outcome is irrelevant as long as that child is happy surely?

The NHS website also says that "if a child is exhibiting signs of identifying very strongly with the opposite gender to the point it is causing the child or family distress, seek help. Signs of distress can include selfharm, destructive behaviour and/ or depression. The earlier before puberty help is sought the better the outcomes." This is from the psycho-sexual therapist at a major transgender clinic, updated in March this year.

mari who cares if the majority of children don't continue to be transgender? Does that mean they shouldn't be given a chance to work through their feelings and be taken seriously.

Will we stop treating depression because it will probably go away by itself? Stop issuing painkillers because the pain will only be short term? It's the same sort of thing, these kids need help and support, thank god we have the specialists to provide that now.

floundering what you described above as penis = male, vagina = female is not gender, it's sex.

Gender relates to social constructs of expected attributes or behaviours expected of women or men. Those expectations change from place to place and time to time. They are not internal.

My point is that no parent should be assuming this means their child will be trans as an adult. Some do see to assume that.

Don't worry Mari any parent that attends a specialist clinic with their child is under no illusions about the statistics and likelihood of their child going on to be transgender as an adult. We have family therapy as well as my son getting his own and it's all made very clear.

Flora the sex of a child at birth is what assigns their gender, what trans kids experience later is that they do not feel this is right.

You seem hell bent on criticising parents who are doing their damndest to do the right thing for their own kids, so forgive me for upsetting you by doing so but to use the hackneyed phrase, walk a mile in my shoes before you have the right to be so fucking judgemental.

I came on this thread and one in Feminist chat in response tothe OP's quite reasonable reference to a subject that most know nothing about, trans kids, & both threads have been derailed by you and your transphobic mates arguing semantics about gender and social.constructs.

^& in fact they are the ones where it is more clear cut IMHO as they are SO sure from such an early age before they know about constraints of society and sexual identity&

Floundering there isn't any such thing (in our society at least) as a child that hasn't had exposure to the constraints of society. There are enough studies to show that even tiny babies are treated very differently when the adults think they are a boy to when they think they are a girl. There is no such thing as a child who is able to make choices about themselves free from the expectations pushed on them by the wider environment.

mariamin the thing is, you'd be amazed at the number of small children who are certain they are trains! Thomas has a lot to answer for.

I'm another one with a female body who had a boy alter-ego as a child. I insisted on a boy name, the whole deal, and so did one of my sisters. We had such fun as brothers for years. My parents weren't either supportive or not-supportive - they were feckless alcoholics who took very little notice of what we were doing anyway, so we just got on with it. Eventually, we stopped - though I never really went the girly route, my sister did a bit. I'd have hated to have been supported right into a counsellor's office to talk about it and then go on drugs.

Floundering I've asked you dome pretty reasonable questions and your answers go around in circles. What does "assigns their gender" mean?

Your statements go beyond "my child has psychological distress and I'm doing my best to help them live their life". You can't demand that everyone else accepts that gender identity is a real thing or that it's okay to encourage children not to accept who they really are or that children should be medicated or operated on so they can fit into gender constructs.

Oh FFS don't any of you actually read the facts posted about transkids by both myself and others who are actually in the midst of it all, not having some theoretical discussion on an online forum a million miles away from the real misery and heartache of transgender children.

archery Children are not wheeled in for counselling & offered drugs, IF the family feel there is possibly cause for concern, IF the child is unhappy and asking for or needing help ( clearly neither of which you were) then the support is there. Parents are child led in seeking help, there is a long arduous process during which the psychiatrists speak to the child on their own sometimes over years as well as with family, and two independant psycho-sexual consultants to do a complex assessment before any drugs are started. If the child is not trans, or is gay or needing some other support then the appropriate referral can be made

Flora I don't care what YOU think gender etc is or where you get the bigoted ideas you are spouting, but the terms I use are ones learnt from the people I trust looking after my son, the experts in their field. The ones who have given my son hope that he has a future, a happy healthy one, with the chance of a succesful career and relationships which is all any mother wants her child to have.

Floundering, you are talking from your experience about your child, and nobody is making any claims to know better than you what you should do in your personal circumstances, under what is currently offered by people working with you and your child, or doubting you have your child's best interests at heart.

But other people have different experiences and different perspectives with their own upbringing and their own children. You claiming things as 'facts' does not make them all so. Other people have a different understanding and different knowledge.

Marking place - will read whole thread asap

Almond, the treatment my son is getting is fact, based on medical fact, differing perspectives do not alter that, wether folks think it is right is another matter!

But this thread isn't about your son in particular.

This is a thread that the OP started about why there are very many more trans children and young people now, and those children are having different experiences to your child.

And circs do make a difference. If I'd had engaged parents, and it hadn't been the 70s, perhaps my life would have taken a very different turn. There isn't any objective opinions on this - everyone, including the parents and the health professionals, bring baggage to these deliberations, so it is valid to discuss it, anf if necessary to explore and challenge how and why things are happening the way they are.

Since there are only a couple of posters on this thread who have actual experience of having a child who is Trans maybe they should be listened to a bit more. It has been reiterated time and again that this is not an easy path to take for parents. The transphobic undercurrent of some of your posts is really apparent.

Now it's bigoted to think children should be helped to love themselves as they are and not be medicated or operated on to fit into what society wants them to be. Is it bigoted to think the ideal treatment for anorexics is not liposuction or labiaplasty / breast implants for girls who have only seen naked women in porn?

I am sympathetic to anyone in psychological distress and some interventions are more serious than others. I have a friend who had a nose job when she was a teen. It's a shame she couldn't live with the nose she came by through her family heritage because it doesn't fit with what society thinks of as an acceptable nose but not, in the scheme of it, life changing.

Of course it's always easier to dismiss anyone who doesn't embrace the medicalisation of gender non-conformity / homosexuality as bigoted.

once again, not every child that goes to the doctor with gender issues will be diagnosed with gender dysphoria of childhood.

It's a long and difficult process that takes months.

Not every child that is diagnosed with gender dysphoria of childhood will be offered blockers.

That is a long and difficult process that takes even longer.

Not every child that has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria of childhood will be diagnosed with gender dysphoria when they are an adult.

That's a different, but equally long and difficult process.

The way some posters are making it seem is that you go to the doctors have a little chat and get handed out blockers like sweeties. It's not the case at all. There is ongoing counselling, assessments, family counselling, school input, you have to get a diagnoses then have it seconded, go through some pretty scary chats about the possible future..... All of this is before you even get to the shit that actually happens when people know.

The prejudice my son faces from adults who know is ridiculous. He has lost close family, he has been ripped to shreds by one particularly bigoted teacher, he has had so much dismissal of his feelings from so many people, goodness knows what life will be like when his peers find out, but he is well aware of what could, and probably will happen, and he is ready and willing to face it as he has done with everything else because this is who he NEEDS to be, it's who he is. Despite going through crap no 10 year old should ever have to go through he has never been happier within himself.

So, no, he doesn't feel he needs to be male to fit in with society, since the exact opposite actually happens, you get no acceptance from anyone at all.

It's so very easy to sit there with your opinion or vague 'experience' and be dismissive. The reality is very different.

If I have a different take on an issue from any of you, please do not tell me what I must be thinking, or assuming, as you are very likely to be wrong.

And please do not try to shut down discussion of something so important by flinging tired old accusations of bigotry and transphobia around. It helps nobody.