Where can I get a white poppy?

[Ellbell]

Some time ago, I used to wear a white poppy (for peace) at this time of year. I haven't seen them for some years now. Does anyone know if they are still produced and where I can get one? Thanks

I think actually the message of the white poppy resonates more closely with much of the poetry which will be read out at remembrance services across the country. WW1 wasn't about glory, freedom and honour, for the majority of those who fought it. It was about terror, mud, lice, gas, disease and death. About surviving in untenable conditions and following unintelligible orders, often dying hideous deaths for a few feet of mud. It should never have happened and should never happen again.

My family also lost members in both wars and I have more respect for their memory than to get misty-eyed over those elements of the Remembrance tradition which IMO romanticise war, a la Rupert Brooke "There's some corner of a foreign field that is forever England" (written by a man who died of food poisoning on the boat on the way to Gallipoli and never saw active service).

Perhaps we owe it to the powerless ordinary soldiers who lost their lives so brutally to make the point that war is counterproductive and peace is worth striving for.

ok-but there is is a lot of subversivness[sp]attached to the whole issue of why politicians choose to start a war and use other issues to cloud real reasons not to

Hmm, the white poppy has been around since 1933, so it's hardly new ... it did come along after the red one, though, I do grant you that.

People generally die in horrific circumstances. What about all the women who have been killed by the men who "loved" them? What about all the people who died of starvation? What about all the people who died of disease?

I'm not sure these people did die for our freedom, I think they may have (effectively, against their will) died for a system that seems to be forever involved in another war that is stupid and pointless.

I don't know if we could have defeated Hitler without war. I suspect the bloodshed could have been a lot less if everyone got involved a lot earlier.

WWII had little to nothing to do with the Holocaust, btw, and everything to do with Hitler's landgrabs. If he'd just stuck to killing his own Jews and not tried to grab more and more land, he would have been fine.

I do understand what you are saying Greensleeves but the fact is that apparently veterans don't feel that the white poppy symbolises respect and honour. And surely it is more import to show respect than to make a polotical statement that will hurt pepole. If you feel so strongly why not wear both?

Putting it another way I suppose some veterans see the white poppy as saying 'well it's sad and all that but you shouldn't have fought in the first place.' Yes, we know that the white poppy people are really saying that the government shouldn't have put these innocent people to war in the first place but in situations like this where emotions are running high and people have lost dear friends and family and seen atrocoties that we can only imagine this reaction imo is completley understandable.

i think we can try to intellectualise[sp?]the whole thing of war-but it comes down to mans inability to love each other

i really dont think we ever give peace a chance!

and i would be terrified to have to take up a gun and so do respect those that didit-but not those that do it now-we should know by now the bullet does nothing but kill

No, I don't think it is more important to avoid hurting people's feelings than it is to make an important political statement against war, particularly during a time when the country is remembering and commemorating the victims of war. I think not wearing a poppy at all, or talking during the minute's silence, would be disrespectful. I don't see that wearing a symbol which combines acknowledgement of the horrific human losses of war with the statement that war is an evil shows disrespect.

If veterans believe they fought for our civil freedoms, then surely they cannot decry our right to exercise them. There have always been objectors to war, and they should be represented. Wearing a white poppy is IMO quite a muted and respectful way of expressing pacifism and recognising the role of conscientious objection in the wars.

BLAIR HAS TWO STRAPPING SONS WOULD HE SEND THEM OUT TO iRAQ?

Someone said that if there was a separate world peace day, they would wear a white poppy then. Well there is - it's September 21: info here peace day . Interesting that it gets so much less attention than Remembrance Day, no?

didnt mean to shout!-not very peaceful of me!

I think the core of the white poppy's meaning is its juxtaposition against the red poppy. It would be a nonsense to wear it at an entirely different time - it is still a remembrance symbol and has its place in the remembrance tradition, as a representation of a viewpoint which is very much a part of the history of this country's wars and is still a legitimate part of their commemoration.

Greensleeves - totally agree with you about the juxtaposition to the red poppy - it give s very poignant message IMO. So wear both!!!

I have been reading this thread with interest, and have learned a lot. I'm not sure that I have an opinion on the wearing of white poppies yet and for that I can blame the eloquence of Greensleeves and Soupy for arguing opposite points of view with grace, dignity and intelligence.

The rest of you have done pretty well too!!

This is what I love about mumsnet, logical, reasoned and well thought out arguments presented in a civilised manner!! Well done

I bet it's kicked off while I've been writing this!!

Why thank you lilibet - must admit it has been a nice discussion and one where all sides behaved with dignity!!!!

yes-noone declared war on the other person!

Maybe we are all growing up??

I remember them being around at Quaker meetings when I was little(white poppies, that is - this seems to have moved on from the original question)

the Quakers have the right idea-i think-but i dont mind if you disagree!

Soupy smells of poooooooo

Sorry, I can't have people accusing me of growing up

LOL Greensleeves - how immature!!!

Crikey... I started something and wasn't around to participate in it. Had one of those days at work (feeling anything but peaceful towards several people atm ) and have only just got back to this... a bit late, since it all seems to have ended in a group hug, everyone saying how much they love one another and MN ... oh, and someone getting twacked with a rubber chicken.

However... just wanted to clarify that I never intended wearing a white poppy to be construed as saying 'yah boo sucks' to ex-servicemen (of whatever generation) or that I don't care to remember what we owe to those who fought and died in the last century's wars. (FWIW I always buy 'traditional' red poppies too and I like the symbolism of wearing a red and a white one together, which is what I'll try to do.) For me, it was always a sort of additional statement... as in, yes, we should remember the past but we should also strive for peace in the future. So I am hugely sorry if I have caused offence to lorina, Marina, Surfermum and others. I can only apologise. It was the last thing on my mind, I promise .

Perhaps we should start a campaign to get white poppies sold (and generally and easily available) for World Peace Day in September.

Thanks to all for a fascinating, thought-provoking and moving thread. And sorry for missing most of it!

xxx

twacked???? Oops, I meant 'thwacked' of course (though looking at it, not sure that that's a real word either...!)