Where can I get a white poppy?

[Ellbell]

Some time ago, I used to wear a white poppy (for peace) at this time of year. I haven't seen them for some years now. Does anyone know if they are still produced and where I can get one? Thanks

Agree with soupdragon.
White poppies absolutely have their place but I would not wear one on remembrance day.

Ok, but do representatives from all over the world include Koreans injured in the Korean War? Vietnamese injured in the Vietnam War? (Oddly enough, they call it the American war.) I thought it was a Allies/Commonweath sort of deal.

Oh yeah, and what Greeny said. That too.

Soupy, I agree it's not outwardly a military celebration, but it is about honouring the dead of the wars, as if they are somehow special dead people in some way. There are a lot of dead people. They're all special in some way - why do these particular dead people deserve a special day? Because war is seen as honourable and good, on some level. They gave their lives gloriously for ours. Except, as Greeny's already said, much better than I could, they often went unwillingly, and died in pointless squalor and misery, for absolutely no good reason.

It isn't just about the men who died in WW1 though. Dh marches every year at the Cenotaph as a Falklands Veteran. He very nearly died and lost close friends when his ship was blown up. He'll never be the same man again. The scars are there on his back and also in his mind. He thinks he should never have come home and still, 24 years later, feels guilty that he did and his friends didn't. Every year on the anniversary of what happened I hold him while he cries silently, every year on Rememberance Sunday I do the same. We've walked into the Falklands Memorial Chapel, he's see a drawing of his ship and he's fallen to pieces. My big, strong husband who is never fazed by anything.

For him Rememberance Sunday is about exactly that, remembering his friends who didn't get out of the ship alive, remembering those who never recovered from the ordeal and went on to commit suicide or drink themselves to death. And I use it as a time to thank God that he did come home, otherwise I'd never have met him and wouldn't have had dd.

I agree with the sentiment of the white poppies, but I'm not sure that Rememberance Day is the right day to wear them. I'll be asking dh when he gets home what he thinks.

Personally I don't think it is for us to decide whether a white poppy is offensive or not on Remembrance Day. As Lucy5 and Soupdragon have put it far better than I can, the day itself, the buying of red poppies etc, has nothing to do with glorifying wars. It is to do with thanking those who took part, remembering those who died, and that is it, full stop. When those who have sacrificed so much decide to wear a white poppy, then I will. But until then I will show my respect for them by wearing a red one.

sorry, feeling grouchy today...

I don't see any contradiction in wearing a red poppy for remembrance and giving freely to the Red Cross. White poppies can't offend the dead victims of wars but they can offend those who survived. Like my dad, who was a reluctant 18 year old conscript, badly wounded at D-Day, and by nature a pacifist. He finds them offensive.

Exactly Marina.

If the Remembrance Day tradition is all about lamenting the lost potential and wasted lives of war, then I can't see why anybody would object to the wearing of a white poppy whose message is that the war should never have happened.

I also think that anti-war sentiment and conscientious objection is an important part of the history of war, and those who died for their non-violent principles have as much place in the remembrance process as those who died for their governments' less honourable objectives.

Maybe those who fought in the second world war, say, don't actually agree they were doing something squalid and pointless?

The conditions my dad had to work in were certainly squalid but by the time he was conscripted in late 1943 word was definitely getting round about the Holocaust and the Concentration Camps, so he felt it was the right thing to do. He hated every moment of it.

They may not agree, but if they believe they "fought for freedom" it seems a little perverse to curtail people's freedom to denounce violence.

Greensleeves, perhaps it is the fact that by wearing a white poppy you are making a statement that is saying, I'm choosing not to remember all those who died at war, I'm promoting peace.
I don't have an issue with white poppies, but I would feel uncomfortable deliberately choosing to show that I don't want to remember the dead.
IFYSWIM. Probably not a very eloquent explanation, but hopefully you get my drift.

Hmm, the white poppy folks say it is "a symbol of grief for all who have been harmed by war". They're not saying "sod those dead people, the stupid buggers"!

oh, I thought it was a bit of an anti-war statement rather than a symbol of grief. I thought the red one was the symbol of grief?
[confused emoticon]

the white poppy

Surfersmummy - your post made me cry. Give your DH a big extra hug.

As far as I am aware the red poppies were to honour the dead from WW1 being "the war to end all wars". Obviously we know it didn't.

However I really do feel it would be disrespectful to wear only a white poppy - I feel it would negate everything the red poppy stands for. The most sensible option I have read on this thread would be to wear both if you feel that strongly. That seems to be a much more honest and poignant message.

From things I have read I think that a lot of servicemen/women feel that "civilians" don't understand what they went through and more to the point don't care. Wearing both red and white would indicate a respect for what ALL servicemen/women have endured/are enduring but with a reminder that war is not the answer.

I don't think the white poppy says "I'm choosing not to remember the dead" at all. Wearing no poppy at all might say that. The white poppy IMO carries the message that the deaths we are remembing were disgracefully unjust and unnecessary, a travesty from which we should all seek to learn, rather than a glorious honour which we should be proud of.

Iremember when my grandfather was alive talking with him about white poppies. As an ex-serviceman during the second world war and having never known his father as he was killed in the first world war, his take was that remembrance poppies were not there to comment on war being right or wrong, but simply to remember those who had died. He felt that jumping on the bandwagon by injecting a simple act of remembrance with a message regarding how you feel about war per se was offensive to him (having lost comrades) and his father's memory.

Also - FWIW I don't agree that war is wrong. Sometimes it is a necessary evil. How else should we have dealt with the rise of fascism, concentration camps and so on under HItler. Should we have just left alone?

Whatever your feelings are regarding more recent conflicts, you surely cannot argue that it is wrong for the day to revolve about remembrance pure and simple.

I am not pro-war at all, but I do believe that sometimes it is a necessary evil. I should probably start another thread, but is there a way Hitler could have been stopped without a war?

Jaw Jaw not War War

Read Surfermummys post and look into the eyes of those old men at the parade who, as 20 year old young men, saw friends torn apart before their eyes and tell me that it glorifies or glamourises war.

Yes, these particular dead people do deserve a special day. Their sacrifice is impossible to quantify. Whether you believe in the war or not, those particular dead people gave their lives/had them taken away in circumstances too horrific to contemplate. I do not believe in war or fighting but I do believe in remembering and honouring those who died fighting in hopeless wars or in wats that kept us free. Demonstrating a wish for World Peace would be better kept to another day - New Year's Day would, IMO, be an ideal day to designate World Peace Day and wear a white poppy. To wear it on Remembrance day belittles the remembering, the thinking about the huge loss of life and that remembering and contemplation has nothing whatsoever to do with your so called "glory of war".

I think wearing the white poppy on rememberance day could be construed as people not respecting those who fought and died in wars and could be seen as trampling on the memory (i'm not saying this is the case but this is how alot of veterans see it). The people who introduced the white poppy did so when the red poppy day was truly established and therefore people took offence. Maybe we should have a white poppy day as well.

what is war good for?-absolutely nothing!

If you believe that the red poppy signifies that twe consider death in war to be "a glorious honour which we should be proud of" than you have spectacularly misunderstood Rembrance Day.

Look at those strong men weeping and tell me that they are proud.

skanger - if everyone felt like that Hitler would have walked into the UK (and Ireland prob).