Oh dear what have I done... (long story)

[Wordsmith]

I think I may just have damaged a good friendship and need some advice!

Basically my 6 y-o DS has been good friends with another boy, K, since they were babies at nursery. We have also become very good friends with his mum & stepdad and his dad too (all very amicable). We even go on hols to the same place as his mum & stepdad and see each other lots socially.

L started school 4 months before my DS (a 2-tier entry system here) and by the time DS started school, K had made lots of friends and become something of a hero to all of them, for some reason. My DS joined in with the 'gang' although always felt a bit left out, and it's only since they went into yr 1 and different classes that he's really made any new friends that are unconneceted to K.

DS and K still played together although in the last 6 months or so things have been getting difficult. DS believes K keeps trying to freeze him out - I would ignore this normally, but have actually seen it happening in the playground so know it's true. My DS is no saint but K loves being the centre of attention (which he usually is) and on occasions when my DS has tried to 'take the initiative' and do something different with 'the gang', K has got very shirty. Basically he (K) loves being in control and doesn't like it when someone steals the limelight. I know I am not the only mum who feels this - several others do too.

It came to a head in the last week or two with my DS getting very upset at holiday club when K and another friend didn't let him sit with them for lunch, low level bullying etc. Again I would have tried to ignore it had it not been for the fact one of the adults at holiday club said "no more tears today, eh?" to DS as we checked in this morning, and told me there had been a lot of bitchiness with K and another mutual friend (who really hero-worships K) freezing DS out. he obviously has been getting very upset there as well as at home. It's making him very hard to handle.

I got home from holiday club and felt that I really needed to talk to K's mum about it. So I called her. Obviously she defended K and wouldn't accept that he was getting at my DS, saying that K had been having nightmares about it and it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. However I went too far by bringing in the fact that kids put K up on a pedestal, not that it was K's fault, that's just the way it is - and that I knew I wasn't the only mum to think that and that it was because K seems to be the kid who has everything, lots of toys and parties etc

She then rightly accused me of getting personal
and I apologised. I have double and triple apologised to her - which she has accepted - and we have agreed to get the boys together after holiday club today and try and sort out the problem.

However, I have two problems to sort out

1. how do I make sure my DS is not upset any more and
2. how do I repair my and K's mum's friendship? I don't want to grovel any more because I didn't actually say anything wrong, just got a bit upset and carried away, but it is a good friendship (for both me and DS) and I don't want to lose it.

Suggestions, o wise MNers?

Sorry, L and K are the same kid (typing error)

You seem to have gone a long way towards sorting it. Of course, none of us like our kids being made to look inconsiderate, but they are kids, and this is an opportunity to try an instill a little care into K. Hopefully his Mum will use it as that. I would also encourage other friendships outside of the gang.

'but it is a good friendship (for both me and DS) and I don't want to lose it'

Sorry but I don't think it is a good friendship. It may have been when they were at nursery but the dynamics have changed.

You need to encourage DS to make other friends. At this age friends come and go. If they can make it up then great but be prepared and prepare your son for it never happening.

I also don't think it is a good friendship if you are talking about her and her son to other mothers. I think you have said something wrong to her personally.

Thanks FJ, I am encouraging other friendships, and he does have other friends, but K has been part of DS's life since as long as he can remember and as he leads the 'in crowd' at school it's a pretty big pull. I am torn between leaving it to lie, and therefore not addressing the problem from K's point of view because it would affect our family friendship, or trying to make K's mum see that he is becoming manipulative! His stepdad (very loyal and loving bloke) has muttered to my DH before now that K is a 'spoiled little brat' when he was having a tantrum - basically refused to play on the beach with our DS and his new kite because it wasn't his (ie K's) kite!

I know my child can be a little bugger and he is a lot more physical than K which is another problem - when K winds him up he occasionally lashes out and yells at him, whereas K seems to have an almost adult sense of how to wind people up psychologically without kicking and screaming! But my DS's reaction is always that - a reaction to K's actions. DH and I are trying to address this but I feel I need K's family to address the other side too.

Kathlean I know I have said something wrong to her, that's why I feel so shitty. But I certainly don't talk about her behind her back - it's normally in the playground when they are all competing to be in K's gang - one of the mums will say something like 'flippin' K - I think I'll put up a shrine to him in our house so my DS can worship there' or the like. They all want to be his 'special friend'! It's not something I think is his fauly or his parents, but it explains how he has got into the position of being able to control things - and quite likes it IMO!

obviously the two boys seem to have outgrown each other so maybe your better off not pushing a freindship that isn't there.
encourage your DS to mak new freinds, maybe there are new people at the holiday club he could play with so that he wouldn't want to follow K around.

whether your freind buys her child everything on sale at Toys R us or just something little for birthdays...thats not really any of your business and it shouldn't affect how others treat her or her child.

I understand your concern is for you child but why not try and get him to be a little more assertive rather than trying to convince the other child to be more tolerant.
if K doesn't want to play with your DS and between you and his mum you tell him he has to, it will cause resentment towards your DS and in the long run ruin the relationship. K will end up pitying your DS because he has to have his mum make people play with him.

of course its more complicated than that but in the eyes of a 6 year old things are very black and white.

As for being freinds with the mum, hpefully she will understand that kids are kids...they are best mates one day and fighting the next. i have a rule never to get invlved with petty squabbling with children as it does not good to fall out wit the parent over it. i am sure she will accept your apology and in time things will return to normal.

blimey Grina do you want to get kicked off with that name?

And yes, the dynamics have changed, but to be quite honest it is K's family that keep pushing them together. I will organise something separate for DS and another friend (the holiday club for example) so that it helps build separate friendships and then K's mum will hear about it and say 'oh, I'll send K too!' What can I say? I can hardly say no. I knew as soon as she did that what would happen... and it did.

whats wrong with my name???

oooh you dont want spend your life in mn towers, ive heard its a very miserable, dank and dark up there.

Grina - yes, we have ignored petty squabbling for ages - but it was getting to the stage that i couldn't ignore it.

K definitely does still want to play with my DS, he's not being forced to by any means. (I'd rather he didn't as I said in my last post) But I am worried about enouraging a friendship which is so unequal. I am beginning to think K only wants to play with DS when he can assert his superiority.

believe me I know how it sounds stupid. My DS may be naive but he really can't understand the powerplay that's going on.

i shall change it back i promise....soon as i can remember how i changed it in teh first place

sorry wordsmith it is upsetting i very well know - but sometimes you have to say to your child " look sort it out or play with someone else"

i always refused to et embroiled in friendship debacles - as they happened very very often. one of my children was always upset or angry at a friend.

its what kids do - they are finding their place in the hierarchy of the school playground

its sad but this riendship has come to and end

and most importantly - why the flying feck would you want your child to play with such a mean kid?

i always told my kids - dont play with him if he's mean - play with someone else.

kids do this shit - you have to encourage them to stick up for themselves.

you cant keep having rows with other mothers becuase your child can't sort out his friendships.

Sorry but that sounds a lot different to how you put it in your OP. (-:

If you had said that to me then being the insecure and everyone is out to get me an no-one at the school gate likes me type of person that I am I would have been really upset and wondered what other crap you had all said about me.

What nasty women you have at your school to say that about a 6 year old though.

Some kids for reasons competely unknown to me are incredibly popular. Some use it for their own interests whilst some don't. Can you tell I was never one of them (-:

I would encourage your son with the new friends he has made at school, invite them around and see if you have anything in common with any of their mums.

Perhaps the old friendships have run their course.

Oh Custy I love you. You seem to understand exactly how I feel. I don't want my lovely little boy to play with a mean kid and learn how to be obnoxious to other kids and exclude them from his gang!

Believe me I have said it all "Play with someone else" "Tell him you're not listening".. but K is realy important to him. I think K has issues of his own to be honest, no-one has ever really said no to him.

K's mum and I are getting them together this afternoon to try and face it out, which may work for a while but I doubt if it will last.

To be honest the only thing that would work is if either my DS or K went to another school. K's clique is so all-pervading, and it's a small school.

I know it's what happens at school and it's really hard to deal with. But thank you Custy for saying that.

Kathlean the mums aren't nasty at all. Just fed up that one child should have such a hold over theirs. Just like me. Believe me I feel crap about it - he's a 6 year old and his parents are really nice - but either we all bow down to the cult of K or we get pissed off with it, and surprisingly most of us get pissed off with it! (under our breaths of course)

Really sympathise with you Wordsmith. My DS has had similar problems.
I've been in & out of school since Christmas & worked out a strategy with the teacher & I've also been telling DS over & over again to leave this other child well alone. I still see the mother, but no longer suggest that the children get together at all.
I mulled over discussing the problem with the mother, but I knew that she would be defensive & probably get offended & didn't think it would get me anywhere.
To be honest, I wouldn't encourage playdates with the two boys at the moment. I think everyone will be a bit oversensitive & things could go very pear shaped.

And how do you bring an end to friednships in 6 year olds when they go to the same school, anyway?

agree with custy
never have interferred in the kids friendships as they can be enemies one minute, mates the next
only the mums end up with egg on their faces

just leave them to sort their own feelings and friendship out

You're probably right. As far as I'm concerned this is a once and for all, last chance chat. It's not going to happen again.

just leave em t it and encourage freindships with new people.

DS does have other friendships, but none that wind him up like this one!

...anyone think I should spit in K's ribena when he comes round?

No I think you should shut the little b*gger in the garden shed and leave him there....

Seriously you can't do much. I personally think you are right to point out to the mother that her son is causing a problem for the other kids - however I can see why this might have upset her...we can all be defensive about our kids. The influence on him has to be hers not yours. He's being a bully albeit in a small scale way and it isn't up to your son to deal with it, put up with it or to stop behaving in a certain way to escape K's attentions. She (and her son too) probably don't see what he does as being a problem. They need to see that it is.

I think custardo is spot on as ever. Little boys' hierarchies are just horrible for parents to watch ime. (I'm sure little girls are just as bad but don't have one so don't know) My sons are 7 and have only just begun to properly ally themselves with friends on a sort of equal basis rather than automatically hanging round top dog star type children and then getting upset when ignored. But there is little to nothing you can do except let them stand on their own two feet and talking to them about friendship and what it entails.