Can it ever be justifiable to want to exclude other children for the sake of your own

[anonaymouse]

A friend of mine fosters and currently has 2 little girls (supposedly short-term but its been over a year) with the worst kind of history you can imagine.

I hear stories of their inappropriate behaviour (from this abusive past) and how it impacts on others. Friend is keen for children to be placed in long-term appropriate family care.

I do not want my small children made aware of certain behaviours which are understandably present in these little girls but still not right

I feel uncomfortable at the thought of them running round my house with my children and cannot relax when we see them (partly because of some of the descriptions of their behaviour that friend has given)

I know this is totally unfair. They are not at fault. They have been appallingly treated BUT it can and might impact negatively on my children and want to protect them from this which I am totally able to do at present

I know rather than react like this I should embrace the challenge and try to help but I simply do not have the energy

what do you think?

It depends on what the behaviour is really, age of children etc

6 and 8 and inappropriate adult sexualised behaviour

I assume this is too difficult a topic to comment on

A lot of people who foster have their own kids too (not sure from your post whether your friend does or not) so this can't be an uncommon problem. Why don;t you try to find out more - look for organisations that support foster carers and see if you can talk to a professional who knows about this. I shouldn;t be suprised if there are simple steps you can take to protect your children whilst keeping up some form of relationship with these 2 little girls - which will no doubt have huage benefits for them. and maybe talk to your friend too - worded like you have here it's clear that your intentions are entirely understandable.

so you feel I should find the energy to deal with this and I would not be justified in avoiding meet-ups with kids until children have been moved .. ok

sorry - I guess I didn;t answer your q of whether it would be justifiable - I'm not sure what the answer would be to that - I think I just said how I would deal with it.

This is a really difficult situation anon, personally I think you would be justified avoiding meetups with these children. It's certainly something I would do in your situation, I understand it's not thir fault, and they shouldn't suffer for what happened to them, but your first and foremost responsibility lies with your own children and if you've got cause to worry about them spending time with these children then no I don't think you'd be a bad person for taking a step back.

hth

how old are your kiddies????

mine are 5 and 2

well....tis a hard subject....and painful for you I can imagine....I am guessing that the foster carer is a good friend with her own kiddies who you DO want to see then??

So you would need to provide constant 1:1 supervision?

It's then up to you to decide whether this friendsip is worth that. Presumably you don't have to see them every day? If you don't feel comfortable looking after them alone then don't, and I would never allow your husband/partner to be alone with them. However I would think it was a shame if these children were shunned for things entirely out of their control. Even if you cut back on visits.

protect your own children as if they see these behaviours and learn them it can;t be unlearned or wiped from their memories and who needs more problems life has enough challenges, avoid.

during school time there is no problem as foster kids are at different school until 6pm and we have coffee during day when only my 2 year old around. school holidays are different (she is neighbour)

I would avoid

but would feel guilty about it

I ouwld feel guilty too but it is better than the alternative

can you then get together in evening when kiddies are in bed???

or........meet up in a neutral setting (park maybe feeding ducks) where you are constantly with your children, and therefore can nip anything in bud immediately. For instance...should they start to 'play-up', walk away while friend deals with them (as I am assuming from the OP that she too finds them hard as she is loooking for other care for them....), and then return once behaviour dealt with.

she should understand how you feel tho....she is a foster carer and so will know how (well.....should at least!) others feel, and how to deal with said feelings

How would they act out the behaviours if you and your friend were suypervising at all times though?

Children who have been sexually absued should not be put in positions where they have a chance to act out, they need a very high level of supervision.

I don't think you should martyr yourself, but I think it would be a shame if they are excluded (and I do have a friend with 2 sexually abused girls and obviously we are very careful about situations the children are in, and we discuss the concerns openly -not in front of the children obviously). We have never had any problems at all.

I fostered many kids over an 11 year period and had my own kids at the same time, and still had other friends' kids over to play as they wqere friends with mine. I would say this:

Continue to meet with your friend but supervise the play. Your foster carer friend should be savvy enough to recognise triggers with the fostered kids and avoid any potential problems. She should also be very aware of child protection issues ie not letting the kids all play together upstairs.

One other point, your friend should not be discussing the foster kids'problems with you - this is a serious breach of confidentiality on her part. If there are reasons the kids should not be left alone to play because of their appalling history, she should just say that isn't a good idea and leave it at that; there's no need to go into any detail at all. As you can see it has tainted the way you view them already. These kids do not need shunning, they need to be able to experience normal play with other kids within a safe environment. Although, I understand the desire to keep your kids away from any potential language/behaviour which is inappropriate.

I don't think the breach of confidentiality comment is totally fair .. everybody needs an outlet especially when something has just happened (like court cases or particular behaviour) ... she is very careful not to discuss openly where there is a chance of being overheard and will never mention names

yes my opinion has been coloured by knowing certain things

I simply don't have the energy at the moment to take this on .. I am, unfortunately, going to avoid where possible .. and I shall feel extremely guilty .. roll on september

The breach of confidentiality IS an issue and a very serious one at that. Firstly, it clouds your judgement of the child in question, and even if no names are mentioned, it isn't rocket science to work out who she would be talking about.

Yes, foster carers need an outlet - that's what their link worker is for and foster carer support groups. Friends outside of this do not make good confidantes. Some of the info is just too juicy to keep to themselves and before you know it too many people know too much when they shouldn't.

It sounds to me a good idea to steer clear for now whilst the foster kids are about if you feel this way - it sounds like your friend needs a lot of support with a very difficult placement, which she may not get from you just now.

Where is fattiemumma anyway? - she would have something to say on this, I bet.

here miss

QE is right. to be telling thos4e not involved with the children about their history is very very wrong.
it is a breach of confidentiality and should not be discussed. Foster carers are encouraged to use suuport groups for these precise reasons. fellow FC will understand the boundaries of confidentiality and therefore understand the limits to which the children can be discussed and so wont ask certain questions.

to get back to your original question. your in a difficult situation because you have been put in a position of knowing about the history. if you had not been made aware you wouod just say...no i donthtink i will let them play together as i dont want my children subjected to that behaviour...instead yu will now have the guilt for reaching that conclusion.

Personally i dont feel it fair that two very damaged children shold be shunned from society because they have leanred behaviours. it will take many years of very carefull therapy and placement to overcome the problems they have with inappropriate behaviour.

my advise would be that playdates are ok as long as both you and FC are there at all times. never allow yourself to be alone with the children...incidents of concern are not limited to males!

I would imagine your freind was chosne to care for these children because itw as decided sghe has enough experiance and knowledge to deal with the chalenges these young girls face, she will know by now the tell tale signs of such behaviour and shall no doubt be able to distract them if the need arises.

If you have a playdate and something happens you dont find appropriate ( i would imagine touching inapropriatly would be the most frequent behaviour) you could simply say, "now thats not very nic is it?" or "no we dont touch people there" i am certain your freind will be able to deal with minor incidents and providing you are both supervising there is no concern of any major incedents.

I would advise your freind contacts her SW though. she is clearly (and understandably) finding this placement difficult and so she needs to discuss this.

I would probably want to avoid these children, sorry, if they are behaving in a way which is unpleasant for my own child or that I don't want my child to witness. But I would feel very guilty about it.

OR if you do feel you have to see your friend with these children present, I would watch them very, very closely and ask her how best to stop such behaviour - ask her about triggers and how to say 'stop' in a way that doesn't cause these poor kids any further problems.

It would be terribly said if these poor girls were shunned for being the victims of appalling crimes. But social services should be providing the support they, and their foster carer, needs to overcome that. It shouldn't be up to you to expose your children to something damaging for the sake of these girls.

FWIW I've known adult survivors of abuse who don't behave oddly at all, but I've no idea what they were like as children - I think they came from a generation where a lot of behaviour was suppressed anyway.