Arghhhh.. row with friends about religious schools......

[unicorn]

basic gist.. we (ie my kids) go to a religious school (RC).. friends do too (CE) they don't believe in religion... but we do.
So this pm I got fed up of listening to them being hypocritical - and ..... whoops.. I told them so.

Big arguement.
Is it my problem?
How do I remain pals? ( have known them for quite a while but never had a personal row like this)

sounds like a drama queen, too.

'i'm not going to be your friend anymore'.

how very school yard of her.

good riddance.

for future reference, however, give religion and politics a swerve as a conversational topic when you're feeling stressed, emotional, etc.

Well I went to church to get ds into a church school - I am not religious and didnt pick a church school because of the religious aspects but because it is a good school and very local. If I'm a hypocrate it is my choice to be so and no one elses business. Why is it for you to comment on your friend's choice of school? I dont understand. I'd have told you to mind your own business, in fact I'd be bloody furious. (However, I dont bear grudges so I'd let you know you'd upset me then put the incident behind me making a mental note to avoid discussing religion with you. It wouldnt be the end of a friendship for me.)

Generally I avoid religion and politics - always prone to end in tears.

I don't think it is hypocritical anyway. If I had to take up rowing in order for my children to get a good education, I'd take up rowing. If I had to go to mass, I'd go to mass. If I had to dye my hair pink, I'd dye it pink. If the LEA puts up a hoop for me to jump through and I don't have a reasonable alternative to that hoop, then I'll jump through it. I don't really see where hypocrisy comes into it.

But I do think you're not losing a friend here Unicorn - it sounds like she's not really been a friend for a long time. One bad-tempered exchange does not end a 20 year friendship - it must have been on its way out already.

Why is it for you to comment on your friend's choice of school? I dont understand. I'd have told you to mind your own business, in fact I'd be bloody furious. (However, I dont bear grudges so I'd let you know you'd upset me then put the incident behind me making a mental note to avoid discussing religion with you. It wouldnt be the end

On the other hand, would you continually bash organised religion in the company of a friend whom you know to be an active participant in it?

That's just bloody rude, man.

I'm a non-believer myself, but I have plenty of friends and family who are believers and a part of organised religion.

They don't bash my beliefs and I don't bash theirs - mutual respect is key to any good relationship.

can I clarify.. I did not just comment on their choice of school out of the blue - of course it is none of my business.
But what I was objecting to was being made to feel I was in the wrong because I do have a religion - and back the teaching idology of the school.
I don't care about their non beliefs - but I do care about mine and will defend them.
It was a case of them being anti religious rather than neutral - I don't shove my religion at anyone - why should I sit and be 'picked' on by those of the opposite persuasion?

Caligula - I think you are probably right - friends generally want to try and help you don't they?

expat, no I wouldnt bash religion. I am very aware that many of the school gate mums do have christian beliefs and I would no way belittle them or attack them. Most of them are aware that I am not religious and we leave it there,. I dont know if they have a moan behind my back but they certainly dont say anything to me.

FWIW I think Unicorn's "friend" shows an enormous lack of respect for Unicorn to constantly bash religion. Live and let live, if people want to follow a religion it is their choice, absolutely.

Unicorn, I've had a huge row in the past with several dear friends (one resulted in slapping her round the face but I was much younger and less wise then! I'm gobby too and have to really bite my tongue sometimes. If your freindship is worth saving then I'm sure the 2 of you will sort it out. You can agree to differ and avoid the subject in the future, eventually things will get back to normal. However, if your friend delights in winding you up, perhaps she is best left alone.

Is it possible to have a good friendship with someone who has a different view to you about something that is quite fundamental to you as a person?

I was brought Catholic and went to a Convent school etc but now am not religious now. I recently met a really nice Mum at the local school and then discovered she is very religious. I don't dislike her for it but I suspect that we probably have very different values and view on certain issues and I suspect there will be limitation to our friendship as a result. I do think she is a lovely women and so are her kids but there is a big part of her life that I don't really understand so how can I ever really understand her.

I wonder if perhaps your friendship has always had it's limitation and they have finally come to the fore.

I think you have a point about them sending her kids to a religious school. After my experiences in a convent I would go out of my way to send a kid to a non dem school.

Personally I think religious schools should not exist but that's a whole different argument.

drosophila - As a Christian (CofE) married to a humanist, I'd say it certainly is possible. dh and I manage by compromise (e.g. ds was baptised but dh didn't take an active part in the ceremony), tolerance and respect of one another's beliefs (and reminding one another of it should that respect slip once in a while, e.g. dh's 'jokes' about religion) and by virtue of the fact that apart from the religion issue (admittedly pretty fundamental!), our world views are broadly similar - our political views, for example. We argue more about his attitude to the ex GDR (he was brought up there) than about religion.
Unicorn - I am sympathetic to your pov (and the ending of the freindship certainly sounds a tad overdramatic) but as long as provision for a good education is so unevenly distributed, I also have some sympathy for those who jump through hoops.

Just relistened to a/phone message...
Friend could apparently cope with the arguement and our differing opinions - but the nail in the friendship coffin was that I argued in front of the children (well actually the kids came indoors to find out what all the shouting was about - and I was trying to explain) these 'friends' are of the opinion - never in front of the children.

So I guess we have many different views which have developed since having kids and they have finally come to a head.
am I sad - well I guess so, but then again I keep thinking how much of a friend has she really been?

Come to think of it this whole thing isn't about religion at all.

no, it sure isn't, uni. sorry to hear about this. but yeah, time to move on. sounds like you two have very different value systems and they aren't very compatible.

My DS starts at the local Catholic School in September. We are not Catholics but it is the best school in the area and I want them to have the best education available and if that means jumping through hoops and makes me a hypocrite then so be it.

unicorn I agree, it really isn't about religion. It seems to me to be about respect and affection. I have friends on both sides - militant atheists (far more militant than me) and raging to moderate catholics, muslims, happy-clappy low-church types, etc., and I'm not continually falling out with them, or they with me (or each other). I think it's because we respect each other's right to have an opinion and value each other's friendship enough to not want to fall out with each other and to ensure that that doesn't happen. And it seems to me that your ex-friend hasn't valued your friendship enough to do that. It's not about religion at all.

thanks all (esp Caligula + Expat) for seeing this through with me - really needed to get it out of my system and you have helped my thought processes no end.

Perhaps I should give up on verbal communication and stick to computers and virtual life from now on !

It's ridiculous behaviour unicorn.
Not you, I mean!
To try to blame it on "shouting in front of the children" is clutching for straws.
I hope you can forget it and move on - these sorts of things tend to eat me up for weeks.

also, tbh, as a REAL friend, if i knew my pal was going thru a lot, and a conversation got heated, instead of telling her to fuck off, i'd say, 'look, i'm really sorry. i know you're going thru a lot and this is a really dumb thing to argue about. you're my friend, so can we please change the subject for now?'