Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

Arghhhh.. row with friends about religious schools......

65 replies

unicorn · 24/06/2006 20:01

basic gist.. we (ie my kids) go to a religious school (RC).. friends do too (CE) they don't believe in religion... but we do.
So this pm I got fed up of listening to them being hypocritical - and ..... whoops.. I told them so.

Big arguement.
Is it my problem?
How do I remain pals? ( have known them for quite a while but never had a personal row like this)

OP posts:
sobernow · 24/06/2006 21:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Caligula · 24/06/2006 21:44

We....ell... If someone said to me "if you don't like religion don't send your kid to a religious school" it would imply all sorts of things about a view they had of me and my children which I would find quite offensive - particularly the view that my children had no right to be educated in a certain state-funded establishment purely because of my beliefs. It would also imply that they had never actually listened to any of my arguments during all the ahem... discussions... we'd had on the subject.

Have you had loads already in the past? Is it a topic that just keeps on coming up? Or is the "I hate religion" the one that keeps on coming up? Do you frequently end up feeling that these friends have berated you about religion at the end of a get-together with them?

Caligula · 24/06/2006 21:46

Sorry, I realised I sounded like the inquisition at the end there.

crunchie · 24/06/2006 21:47

Unicorn FWIW my kids go to a CofE school and I am jewish. I do have an issue with it, BUT I didn't have a choice in the fact we live ina village and there is only one school. Would I choose to send my kids to a catholic school? Probably not, BUT it really would depend onthe alturnative. The only issue I can see is that your friends don't seem to approve of the religious side of the teaching at school, well I can understand that and there have been many threads here on this. I did go and talk to the head and I also ensured that any judiasm is taught well (with visit to synagogue since they were going to do a church visit). So tbh I understand both sides, I agree with you that if you are not religious it is hypocritical to send kids to a religious shcool, BUT in some cases it is the only shcool and in others it is the best school. Therefore I would just have to ensure my kids got their religious eductaion at home.

However it does sound like a bit of a storm in a T-cup and although you may not want to talk about it, a soft apology could be in order, saying you shouldn't have called them a hypocrit, but that you find their position hard to understand IYKWIM. This is provided you want to stay friends Good Luck

donnie · 24/06/2006 21:50

I would have done the same as you unicorn.

Believing in God and following a faith is a lot more than 'jumping through a hoop'. Such a comment belittles peoples' faith.

Rowlers · 24/06/2006 21:52

I don't think it's a simple as that though Donnie to be honest.

donnie · 24/06/2006 21:53

in what way?

Rowlers · 24/06/2006 21:56

It isn't just a religious issue, it's an education issue.
And it's (sorry unicorn if I've got it wrong) about conversation topic etiquette!

Caligula · 24/06/2006 21:59

Er donnie, for me, it is just jumping through a hoop. I don't see how that belittles anyone else's faith, other people's faith is of no interest to me (in material terms) but their children's access to a specific school taking priority over mine, is.

Original poster
unicorn · 24/06/2006 22:11

hmmmm - a difficult one, so why discuss it?
To me it seemed deliberately provacative ie. We don't believe in religious schools (full stop).
Now, I wouldn't have got into that discussion at all (god I don't want to talk about schools or kids remotely when I am with friends)
I think a)I overreacted... but
b) they were completely (and not for the first time)insensitive to my beliefs.

OP posts:
frogs · 24/06/2006 22:23

I think if you have strongly-held beliefs, it is natural to do a double-take when people behave in ways that appear to follow that belief while not actually practising it -- or even actively denying it.

I felt a bit like that about some friends who had a big glamorous party for each of their children's christening, while not actually ever attending church (they weren't doing it for school admissions, though). I feel a bit like that about the outbreak of conspicuous piety that erupts in the parents of Y4 children at our (church) school when they finally read the writing on the wall wrt secondary school admissions criteria and are suddenly desperate for the child to be a reader or an alter server, despite having never previously been regular attenders. Or when parents turn up to Mass to get their child into the primary school and then disappear once their youngest child has a school place.

But I try very hard to get over myself. In the end one can't always judge people's motives accurately, and I know several people for whom the schools admissions process has brought them back to church even once the 'need' to go has passed.

I agree that parents who genuinely choose a church school over other non-religious schools (as opposed to the only available school being a CoE one) and then endlessly criticise the religious component do stick in my craw rather. But I try to offer it up.

Caligula · 24/06/2006 22:25

It sounds to me like they're always winding you up, tbh and what with hormones, heat and children, you just got fed up with it.

If you could work into the reconciliation conversation something about how upsetting you always find it that she seems to continually be needling you about religion, even though she knows you're religious, some good may even come out of this - at least she'll realise just how annoying she's been. If she's upset by this one thing you've said, then she may appreciate that you've been upset on numerous occasions. Seems to me she ought to know anyway, tbh.

Original poster
unicorn · 24/06/2006 22:33

Frogs I agree - there are many,many hypocrites in church schools.
Just remembered one of the parting shots form 1 of the 2 'pals' was along the lines that I had only started going to church to get my kids into the school - well that is the biggest pile of b llocks in the history of bllocks - and so very very wrong.
Now can we weather this? I don't really know. I do know friend 1 does NOT like to be challenged (I previously nicknamed her the Furher) and friend 2 hangs on her coat tails.
I think I did the unspeakable -I challenged the Furher, whoops.

OP posts:
Caligula · 24/06/2006 22:34

Do you actually want to be friends with them? [doubtful emoticon]

sowoffended · 24/06/2006 22:34

Sounds like they're not really friends worth having tbh.

Original poster
unicorn · 24/06/2006 22:39

well if it weren't for religion we get on ok really - and the kids like each other!

But, come to think of it they are a bit like voyeurs, they enjoy listening to other peoples woes without ever really sharing any of their own( they don't apparently have any)

So maybe I don't have much of a bond with them.

OP posts:
Tortington · 24/06/2006 23:03

i simply wouldnt allow someone to speakt o me that way and still want to salvage a friendship - no matter who was wrong.

maybe you could have handled it better - but lets face it - you have shitloads going on with yoursefl at the moment and "friends" would understand this and not come over all effing this and effing that.

thats not a friend darlin!

doobydoo · 24/06/2006 23:03

Of course you should be able to challenge them..and if they keep going on about it youu were bound to get fed up.If they get huffy about it thats their prob

Original poster
unicorn · 24/06/2006 23:10

yep you're right custy.. Friend 1 (furher) is more like a convenience aquaintance coz of kids.
Friend 2, well, I have known much longer but she has become a doormat for 1 ..
It almost feels like being back at school when your pals 'went off' with someone (remember that saying!?)
Furher actually did give me a hug at the end (but it was all very strange as we actually were amidst the arguement)
Didn't like the fact that she was censoring her ds (age 7) from the 'heated debate' - not coz it was abusive etc but coz she didn't want him to hear my viewpoint.(I speak with forked tongue obviously!)

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 24/06/2006 23:36

fuck 'em, unicorn. they sound like gits. sounds like you've had enough of those in your life as it is.

move on.

Original poster
unicorn · 25/06/2006 10:40

message on answer phone... my 'friend' is no more.
She is not prepeared to forgive me - for argueing in front of the kids.
Known her for 20 plus years!

some friend.

OP posts:
Caligula · 25/06/2006 10:42

Well how ridiculous.

Sounds like an excuse.

Caligula · 25/06/2006 10:48

I mean, if a friend called me a hypocrite I'd be angry and hurt, but I'd only make a unilateral decision to not forgive her if I'd decided the friendship had run its course anyway. One incident doesn't usually ruin a friendship (unless it's something like sleeping with your husband). If it does, then the friendship was probably dying anyway.

Hope you don't feel too bad about it Unicorn.

Original poster
unicorn · 25/06/2006 10:48

Im obviously the evil one who has upset their kids - that is an unforgiveable offence.

OP posts:
Original poster
unicorn · 25/06/2006 10:50

I feel pretty shitty but it takes more than 1 to argue so can't take all the responsibility.

It was the Furher who told me to F off as well - but Friend doesn't seem to blame her at all.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread