Teachers. Honest comment please

[Tortington]

my son was with a group of pupils who were smoking. on this occasion however he was not smoking.

he completed 5 hours of detention
he was told he may not be allowed to go to the prom. until last week - the prom is next week.

i know not everywhere has a prom so let me explain - the financial aspect is quite harrowing actually- theres a limosine, suit, shoes, shirt, tie, acessories. and as its "prom"season the likleyhood of getting a limosine with 2 weeks notice is nil.

this has caused no end of financial worry for the whole family.

then the straw that broke the camels back was the thrid punishment
an extra fiver on the price of the ticket.

i am royally - and i mean cartoon red - steam coming out of ears pissed off. the only people who are being punished are us - the parents.

its a good job i have took my anger out on the school by writing letter to the effect of above - and not on my son - who i might add i want to beat the shit out of for being the hub of this enormous worry.

we have been dangling for 2 months now. cannot plan anything - each week being told the decision will be soon - we have phoned ourselves- incase of son/parent miscommunication - and been told the same thing.

i guess along with the series of unfortunate events i want to ask - how many punishments for a crime of association should a school give?

i am so very angry. the people who are suffering are the rest of us - we are on cheapo tesco stuff whilst ds is at his girlfirends everynight on steak and efing chips. which i cant deny him becuase - .....he didn't actually do anything - and the school have already punished him.

i have always supported theschool - and have took with silence the punishments so far but the last fiver was a fucking pisstake.

your views much appreciated.

As for you being hit by this, exactly who is paying for your son's smoking habit ?

5 quid is not a lot of cigarettes, perhaps by reducing spending ability they school hopes to reduce the chances of other kids getting caught up in your son's problems.

Smoking is an infectious disease. Peer pressure, and being offered fags is the start of a disease that will kill a lot of them.
How many of the smokers here started at school ?
Are there any who didn't ?
A school can't expel smokers, but it can make it a lot less cool.
Does your son think smoking is such a good idea ?

Is he less likely to offer fags to a younger kid now ?
Of course he's kept dangling, that's not only part of the punishment, it's a deterrent to try and stop him infecting other kids.

Having had my mother and sister die of smoking related illness, I'm not quite sure what I'd call "over-reaction" in this context.
If my kids were smoking they wouldn't be going to the prom anyway, nor would they have pocket money to buy fags with.
Watching TV would be something that happened to other people.
That's bullying, admit it with pride.

But I must say that like Carnemere, it just feels that the school's reaction was based upon other things he did. Even if DS is 100% honest, a smirk or whatever may be enough to push an irate teacher oever the edge.

Schools nowadays have a small set of things they can do to miscreant kids, and this can have unexpected effects, and collateral damage.

The school was wrong in a matter of fact, but I'd be 100% behind them if it were mine.

he pays for his own

please don't lecture me on smoking.

its not something we condone or contribute to. so i don't really see why we should be punished.

i understand the school punishing children smoking in school grounds - i understand punishing for going off school grounds - to smoke.

my son did neither. he smokes - but not in school

and as he pays for his own - he does not give to younger children - becuase he is to tight. what an assumption to jump to.

DominiConnor, I don't think there has been any suggestion that custardo's son has been giving cigarettes to another child - from my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong, custardo) he was with a group of friends, some of whom were smoking, and his offence was that he didn't tell on them.

And it's rather easy to talk about what a great parent of teenagers you'd be if you don't actually have one yourself to wreck all your cherished theories...

We have banned kids from our prom for behaviour problems but this was serious misdemeanours such as abusing a teacher or bullyinf or failing to hand coursework in. Smoking is quite harsh, especially if he is over 16 so can legally smoke.

But if the school has said beforehand any smokers will be band from the prom than they have to stand by their threat. Was it just normal cigarettes they were smoking?

As for guuilt by association it does happen a lot in schools as we are not mind readers and I am afraid as in life in the real world yuo wil be judged by the company you keep, not always fair or right but it is the way of the world.

What is not right is the changing of mind at the last minute - which suggests that they thought they were in the wrong and the extra five pound which is just bizarre.

You do have my sympathies thought my nephew went through something similar and his parents were really upset and like you had gone to a lot of expense and trouble.

I'm glad it's going to a charity but still think the punishments are not actually teaching the kids anything. If they have a problem with smoking in the school they need to address this problem - maybe get all of the culprits to do a project together on the dangers of smoking and get them to present it to the school in assembly.

With regard to your son smoking - as long as he is 16 he can legally buy them, obviously any parent would be devastated at their child smoking but if they earn their own money and are old enough to buy them, what can you do?

If I'm not mistaken below 18 you need permission from parents to work. Would turn up and make a fuss at the place of employment.

I've had pee in my face, slppe deprivation, and DS2 (at 2yo) head butted me so hard I believe I have permanent nerve damage, so being the mad parent at the local supermarket is easy by comparison.

As for projects, I'm all for educating kids who might smoke, but by the age of 16 they've recieved quite a lot of this sort of propagands. To me it rather follows that if they've taken up smoking that sort of thing ain't gonna work on them.

I don't think there is a silver bullet for this, and I've heard defective parents talk of how when they're adults they can make their own choices.
But the stats are pretty clear that the longer you keep kids way from the weed, the less likely they are to take it up.

Alas, successive governments have been too weak to take on the fag industry and raises the age to 18, or even enforce the laws they have.

Remember how Tony Blair got a million quid bung from Berni Ecclestone to exempt Formula 1` from the ban on fag advertising ?

The tories are no better, having decades to do something.

I can't wait till your kids are teens DominiConnor!

Custy, he said that in his opinion the school have overreacted! DominiConnor said that! I would print that out and say "there you go! If DominiConnor says that, then it's true!" They are sure to back down then!

Did I miss something? Why would you go into his place of employment domini?

I didn't start smoking until I was 21 (have since given up)

One punishment - then draw the line! It's ridiculous to keep this dragging on as, at the end of the day, it's not the kid who has to sort the whole lot out. Having worked in the area of "equal ops" around Brighton for years it makes me spit when people who claim to be so right on don't understand the basics of discriminating against people who haven't got lots of cash. And what's with this prom shit anyway - an import too far methinks

''If I'm not mistaken below 18 you need permission from parents to work. Would turn up and make a fuss at the place of employment''

Eh? Confused....

Think the £5 is a step too far Custy - and it's bloody ridiculous to have it drag on so long.

DC seems to be infering negligence on my part becuase my son smokes. which wasn't the issue in the first place but one he has taken up never the less ignoring the asked for advice. my son smokes and in that regard i have failed as a parent this is true your speaking to the converted DC

however ruining his chances of employment is a step too far.

should he do what then? higher education - becuase he isn't the academically inclined type. he dislikes formal education yet loves the building work he has been doing in the holidays. every holiday, bringing home a wage and giving the majority to me.

which in turn would ruin his apprenticeship - for without a job he cannot ahve an apprenticeship.

and then alas i fear i would indeed be a failure when he has time on ihs hands all day every day whilst dh and i are at work - what shall he do? he could go and see the other boys who left school last year - they are on benefits - paid for by you and i. My son thinks his friends have a good thing going. they sit at home all day eeryday. they have rent paid and enough left over for weed. there daily routine consists of getting up and smoking weed.

after we had one of our very usual conversations - for he and i communicate with great ease - a relatiosnhip i treasure most highly - i asked him where his friends will be in 5 years time - he answered that they would still be in the same place. in 10 years? he said the same, the light turned on and he realised that in 5 years time he will be earning quite a substantial amount as a builder. after his apprenticeship and his "friends" woudl still bein their flat smoking weed.

he is alovely well rounded young man - and one i am most highly proud of. he has a girlfriend of 8 months. he never gets drunk or stoned, he has a job - he proved himself worthy to have and keep and he set himself up with his apprennticeship at the local college. This very handsome lovely generous, caring, loving, wonderful person who towers above me treats me with dignity and respect. he does his chores when asked and would fight to the death for his borther or sister.

this young man has worked since he was 13. the first chance he could he got a paper round to buy a fishing rod, then a bike becuase he knew we couldnt just buy him things as he needed them. this young man fixes his brothers bike and his own and takes him fishing off the pier or to the pond.

this young man babysits the twins (both now 13) when dh and i go out. and never any bother. never something wrong, never a phone call.

indeed if i do say so myself with this one i have done a wonderful job. and should the other two turn out half as lovng caring and giving =- half decent all round human beings then indeed i will he a very lucky woman with three children all with different abilities academically and otherwise, three children to be proud of.

i wish you all the same wonderful relationship that i have with him. it is wonderous to behold, awe inspiring to catch yourself in a moment and lable it "how lucky am i"

And I am one proud Godmother!

So put that in yer pipe and smoke it DC! Oh I forgot, you don't do you?!

I'm very proud of you, Custy.

Bog off, DC.

The only similar instance I remember from where I work is where we did ban a boy two weeks before the prom. He had been badly behaved on repeated occasions and had been told that this was his last chance. He then made the mastike of telling a member of staff to F Off. So we banned him.

Not just for the F Off, but because he had been warned he was on the last chance, and basicaly he didn't give a stuff.

Parents were royaly pissed off because of the cost etc.

So the only thing that I can think of is that the school are using the leverage to get him to play ball for the last two months of term?

The £5 sounds bloody odd, I'd find out what that is all about.

He turned up, pissed , on the night and gate crashed and had to be escorted off the school grounds

and as ever fwiw, I think you are doing a cracking job custy!

What a lovely post Custy, he sounds fab!

Job well done Custy!

It's bloody brill when they come back from the 'teenage wilderness' isn't it? Lovin' my ds1 at the moment

hahahahahahahahahahaha dc. You can't really respond to that post can you? It's too darn brilliant.:)

I think the extra fiver is an absolutely diabolical liberty custy. It's shit, pure and simple. Punish the kid once if you have to, not 3 times.
I would happily send that boy a fiver for being a sweetie though. Let me know if he needs it.

We'll petition the school for you! They won't know what's hit them! Mumsnetters unite!

Custy, I have a tear in my eye reading your post. You have a way with words, a lovely way.

custy, thats lovely, i hope mine grow up like that.

As a teacher, can I just say that we usually 'ban' kids from their prom only if they've been a total PITA throughout Year 11? If that doesn't describe your ds, Custardo, (ie. one minor offence) you have every right to be outraged.

Also, our spineless Head invariably then caves in 'on the night' - Years 7-10 know this full well, so the threat of a ban has zero effect anyway by the time they're in Year 11.

One interesting point to note is that often schools can't actually ban kids as such - if the Prom is organised by the kids (Student Council?) & held at a separate venue eg. a local hotel. Usually they are. The 'get out' for the school is that venues generally expect a teacher presence to reduce likelihood of trouble, & will accordingly agree to a named member of staff muttering in the ear of their door people...but it's NOT the school's right to ban people.

Your ds should've been told either 'You aren't going, end of' or 'This is how you re-earn the privilege'. School have behaved in v petty manner!

Phone the school tomorrow and explain your position.
I'll bet they will come to an acceptable agreement.

And ignore the loony self-righteous comments further down. It's a lone voice in the wilderness. In fact, there goes a tumbleweed right now ...
And I hope your lad enjoys his "prom".
Our Year 11s looked incredible and behaved impeccably at ours. Did us proud.