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So, us rotten lot....

999 replies

scarredpierced · 11/04/2013 10:19

How many of us actually meet Shona's little sidekicks criteria?
She states that all of us on Mumsnet are in our 30s, living in London and have a degree. How many people here meet that criteria?
How many are popping prozac depressed at the shit life we now have with kids?
Damn that woman is nasty!

OP posts:
DamselWithADulcimer · 15/04/2013 09:43

This is all so childish. As if clicking on a DM link could somehow pollute a computer. Honestly!

UptoapointLordCopper · 15/04/2013 09:44

I don't understand. Are we supposed to be uniformly nice because we are mainly women? Or because we are some of us parents? I have kicked (metaphorically speaking Wink) people who said that in real life and will be happy to kick (metaphorically speaking too) anyone who says that online too.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 15/04/2013 09:48

I actually bought the DM today (whilst at garage) Blush as they are apparently trying to back-peddle a bit today with a front page article in support of SAHM's and an apology (well, correction) to Mumsnet on page 2 !

ItsYoniYappy · 15/04/2013 09:50

It's quite sick they say that. I know a lot of websites I visit, one in particular for PTSD have a 'no suicide talk policy' so if anyone comes on saying they feel low and mention the S word, they are banned immediately.

On here I see people posting saying they are suicidal and people help them, talk to them, advise them to call people, try to get help for them, DM couldn't have got it more wrong imo.

I don't read the DM, I bought it once by accident, it's kind of like The Sun and The Star I felt when reading it, all made up nonsense, this is why I do not read Newspapers, they are usually full of crap.

UptoapointLordCopper · 15/04/2013 09:51

Yoni You are wise.

prettybird · 15/04/2013 09:53

Damsel - on Saturday I did an analysis of the 100 threads in "Active" conversations (I have set MN to show 100). OK, it was only a snapshot, but of this 100, only 15 were in AIBU. Of that 15, only 3 were in any way contentious (about religion, Thatcher and Yonis/Nobdies). The rest were either funny, supportive or asking for advice - with no trolling or bitchiness.

This is before even checking out the other 85 threads which were the whole normal gamut of MN converstations, from legal advice, big/slim threads, relationships, style & beauty etc.

But "good" news is "bad" news for journos. Hmm

If I don't like a thread, I stop reading it. If I really don't like it, I'll hide it. Seeemples.

aufaniae · 15/04/2013 09:56

"This is all so childish. As if clicking on a DM link could somehow pollute a computer. Honestly!"

You've spectacularly missed the point.

The Daily Mail makes its money through advertising. Every time you visit the site you are boosting their web stats, which makes money for them. if you link to them, you're encouraging lots more people to boost their stats. The DM makes money from winding people like us up, we click because we're outraged rather than because we are "DM readers". It makes no difference though if we support what they're saying, it still makes them money if we visit.

So no, I don't think the DM will pollute my computer Hmm I see not visiting them as a very practical thing to do.

And please don't tell me there's no point as one person can't change anything. Will you be telling me not to vote at the next election too?

Xenia · 15/04/2013 09:59

The DM is a paper which supports very sexist family set ups where women clean and stay at home and men earn money. It would not be surprising if they supported housewives. They are hardly a feminist paper.

Also the suggestion women have to be nice or polite or unambitious is very sexist. Plenty of us like to have power and money and succeed. Those are not male values. They are human values and to suggest women are "male" just because they have certainly values puts women into a box.

Xenia · 15/04/2013 10:07

[Back to women who buy their own islands etc..... I just read back a bit on the thread (I go to sleep at 10pm part of what makes me feel good).... AmandaP's comment about women and careers - well my advice on how to help girls choose careers would include choosing work which never gets dull. So the work itself changes over the years and which is intellectually difficult and satisfying. That helps. I have had a good few teenagers already and have more now so trying to show young people what careers there are is part of being a good mother whether you work or don't.

I agree that most women reading are probably a bit old for radical career change although people do at all stages achieve that and one advantage of giving up work for some can be to ditch a low paid pin money dull job which would never have got you anywhere and start a business which might earn you millions and which you own. Take opportunities. Look on the bright side and things tend to go better. Even older women with daughters though can guide their children. Most children whether at state or private school have very little idea of all the careers out there. I can certainly remember my father who drove us to school right up to age 18 every day talking about what makes a satisfying career and tossing out ideas of what might be good. Some of my children have a careers evening this week although they seem reluctant to go - plus ca change.

It says careers to be covered include journalism, law, dentistry, engineering, medicine, architecture and others. There are of course many others although it is a reasonable list from which to start with teenagers.]

ComposHat · 15/04/2013 11:28

I did manage keep up 5 sets of school fees, pay for 3 through university and pay for childcare etc. and recently help one buy her first flat and one has a wedding this year

This is the flaw in your argument. I used to work for social services and some of the girls were bright, I mean really bright. They were more than capable intellectually of undertaking a well paid, intellectually satisfying careers that you've mentioned. They were doing well, despite some of them having to cope with chaotic home lives and parents with all sorts of problems.

The problem wasn't lack of ambition or ideas, it was largely down to parents lacking the financial resources to support them in their ambition. The prospect of supporting them through two years of sixth form was beyond them, let alone three years of University (plus further professional training). I would love to see their reaction when you told them that their problem was lack of ambition, I suspect their reaction would be a hollow bitter laugh.

Thing is, whatever your kids achieve, they don't 'deserve' it more than the kids I worked nor have 'earned it' on a level playing field.

I have no wish to denegrate your children's academic or work achievements, but they been supported and cosseted all the way. They've benefited from a private education, not had the worry of crippling debt upon graduation and the prospect of combining near full-time work with full-time study, just to get by. Then they get the chance to develop their 'interesting and well-paid' career in the security of their own home, thanks to a hefty parental deposit.

It is the Thatcherite myth writ-large 'Everyone should stand on their own two feet and achieve on their own merits....apart from my own children whom I will cosset and seek to buy advantage for at every turn.'

Mark Thatcher being an absolute case in point.

Lucyellensmum95 · 15/04/2013 11:37

Excellent post CompostHat - That is exactly my point of view too.

mrsjay · 15/04/2013 11:44

compost hat

you can have as much ambition as you want it is fantastic when parents pay for it all

LRDtheFeministDragon · 15/04/2013 11:46

Well said, compos.

kotinka · 15/04/2013 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ComposHat · 15/04/2013 12:30

Too kind, too kind.

AmandaPayneAteTooMuchChocolate · 15/04/2013 12:31

Xenia - Yes, work that changes and evolves is a valid point. But I worked in a similar field to you (different area of law, but a radically evolving one) and I came to hate it. I think that there is definitely an element of luck in finding a job you love for decades. And there is certainly an element of privilege - in that even the striving middle class kids like me never had access to the reality of these careers before diving in, never mind children from less advantaged backgrounds.

Totally agree with you Compos

TheRealMBJ · 15/04/2013 13:25

I usually try to avoid this because it is impossible to argue a point someone refuses to see but...

The simple fact of the matter is that capitalism precludes everyone from being able to earn £100k+ while doing stimulating and varied work. It is quite simply impossible. Despite all the will, dedication and hard work in the world. Fact

This does not make those of us who do not own our own island lazy or failures.

HorryIsUpduffed · 15/04/2013 13:25

no suicides have ever been linked to Mumsnet

That's not quite good enough, even though they do say members are very supportive of those suffering mental ill-health.

Lucyellensmum95 · 15/04/2013 13:29

I'm not sure what else they can say though Horry - i know what you mean though, the "correction" had the tone of a recalcitrant child who has been forced to apologize to his friend for not letting him share his toys.

HorryIsUpduffed · 15/04/2013 13:44

I don't know; something about the wording said "nothing has ever been formally linked, but we all know better don't we".

Although in fairness that's my bias coming out. The DM would love to be able to blame MN for a death, or cancer, or imagrunts or something.

Lucyellensmum95 · 15/04/2013 13:55

Well, i for one have been saved by MN on more than one occasion. You do have to be careful where you post but i think even in AIBU people soon see if someone is in genuine distress and will wind their necks in and offer support where needed. That is how i have always found things anyway.

SomethingOnce · 15/04/2013 14:05

Couldn't agree more, Compo. Well said.

exoticfruits · 15/04/2013 18:13

Excellent post, Compo.

flaminghoopsaloohlah · 15/04/2013 18:15

Ambition is great, Xenia...but I do have a question...if everyone fulfils their ambition and gets the high flying top 5% earner jobs...who is going to do all the donkey work at NMW? Someone has to do those jobs...just because someone is earning a completely shit wage doesn't mean they are lazy or unambitious...100%, nor even 50% of the population can suddenly become part of the top 5% just because you say all they need is ambition and drive...

exoticfruits · 15/04/2013 19:20

Xenia never addresses the problem that top surgeons can't do operations without nurses and cleaners.
I remember once the advice to someone wanting to be a cleaner that they needed to start their own company-ignoring the fact that someone has to do the nitty gritty and actually clean!
Those in top positions want to go out to eat, want their car serviced, want their hair cut, want to buy products made in factories, want to buy goods in shops, want their DCs card for.
Perhaps her answer is that men do all these low paid jobs, but as a mother of DSs I want them to aim high too.

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