working from home

[jenny2998]

I'm currently on benefits because i want to be a stay at home mum to my children (aged 10 months and 3years). So far I have been unsuccessful and just come up with loads of scams and rip-offs. Does anyone here work from home? I would be grateful for any info anyone can give me.

I referred to your "fact or fiction" sentence because you claimed to want to base discussions on FACT. Quite right too so I would have thought you would have taken your own advice.

The fact is that I simply said I would not consider giving my phone number to a "network marketing company". You, however, said that I "just say you 'know all about it' cos someone knows someone who did it and lost loads of money etc. etc..." I said nothing of the sort. I never said you could lose money, I never made any comment about what you did. In fact it would have been impossible to comment about what you did, look at the literature or claim to know all about it since all you said was that it was a "network marketing company" and gave no information about what the business was at all. I do not and never would give my phone number to a "NWC" and would not deal with anything that insisted I do so for no good reason. Telephones are not an essential means of communication.

When I pointed this out, you simply started getting a*sey. You incorrectly included me in your tirade and I simply pointed this out. I am perfectly happy to be included in any tirades based on fact not fiction.

As for making smartar$ed remarks about typos - oh please get real! Life's too short for checking posts to an internet site!!

As for being your nemesis... ROTFLMAO

And in the words of that great Sound of Music song "So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen goodnight..."

ooerrr! I'm probably going to regret saying this, but what the hell. The trouble with a lot of network marketing companies, IME, is that they rely on friends selling to friends selling to friends ad infinitum. Therefore the only people who make any serious money are the owners of the company who are simply selling stock to people who are selling stock to people who are trying to sell stock to friends etc. And so it is a sort of pyramid (even if it is not so called pyramid marketing supposedly) and it will collapse at some point if you're towards the bottom, i.e don't work for the head office.

Hmmm, once had a weird summer in the 80's (when else?) where all my friends and family seemed to have an evangelical glint in their eyes and to be trying to sell me something I didn't want or need. Water filters, Herbalife, etc and I didn't appreciate it. From my experience these family and friends were also reluctant to name the product at first - they just had the light of zeal in their eyes as they raved about how good it was. And I didn't like it. Maybe it's a British thing, this not-liking-friends-trying-to sell-us-things business?

Anyway Munchkinsugarpie, you're welcome to talk about it and anything else here as far as I'm concerned but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to agree with what you're saying. Don't want to fight with anyone BTW, just stating my experience and opinion.

It's amazing what you learn at 5.30 in the morning when you can't sleep.
WWW has said just what I was thinking.
Munchkinsugarpie could you explain what is the difference between what you are doing and pyramid selling?
Thanks.
Also , why would you only send an info pack to those who would provide a phone number , when info. packs are freely available from the company website?

I never knew there was so much to Kleeneze. I'll look at those mops and washing up liquids in a new light. Without repeating Jasper's and www's points can I ask a further question, munchkinsugarpie:

This marketing plan, you say, is at the heart of Kleeneze. As you introduce people to Kleeneze and train them you get paid royalties, and to quote you, the training sessions contain "lots of psychology stuff as well as practical stuff about setting up your own business as a whole"

So are you talking about a self improvement/ business course? if so, how many recruits go on to start their own business outside the kleeneze network?

Pyramid selling is where the first person buys the goods from the manufacturing company at £5, who sell them to their distributor for £6 who then sell them down 'the chain' to their distributor for £7 as infinitum. So the guys at the bottom of the chain have bought the goods at hugely inflated price. And the guys at the top are the ones making all the money.
Network marketing means every distributor buys the goods at the same price, and so makes the same profit selling them. You get bonus paid from the manufacuring company for the amount of business that goes through your 'chain'. So you are not taking money off your distributors. It's the multiplication of effort. (is this right munchinsugarpie ?or help me and give a better explanation)
We did Amway for a couple of years, and its much more a 'people mangement 'business, looking after your distributors, basically helping them to help you ..hence all the pysobabble. The trouble is people tend to see it as a get rich scheme and go ranting and raving about it and putting their friends and peoples backs up. Which rightly gives NTM a bad name and it needn't be like that. Also they has been a history of ripping people off, and the whole business got their act together and produce ethical codes and there are laws against true pyramid selling to protect vulnerable people.

We did Amway for a couple of years and still get the goods, and our distributor never hassles us to keep buying stuff. I do buy odds and ends from Betterware, Kleeneze, Virgin Cosmetics etc if they are things I would normally buy at a good price. Why not help small businesses, Sainsbury's and the like make HUGE profits.

I'm mainly a lurker here but this has intrigued me.

If network marketing means you get bonus paid from the manufacuring company for the amount of business that goes through your chain then the people at the bottom of the chain surely can't make as much money as the people at the top?

If, as Munchkinsugarpie says, the main source of income is derived from the marketing plan and paid in royalty bonuses once you've helped other people get up and running in their own businesses, then people later on down the chain will be unable to make the same profits at the person at the top. The potential for profits is cut everytime someone else signs up to the company since there are less people to persuade to sign up, train and get 'royalties' for.

This still sounds effectively like a pyramid scheme to me as the potential for profit reduces with each step down from the top of the pyramid.

mmm i only started on this web-site today, i thought it would be mostly about what to do if your child does this or that, i certainly wasn't expecting the soupdragon/munchkinsugarpie saga, who needs jerry springer. all i can really add is that i have bought from the catalogue about 6 pounds and when the guy came to deliver i asked how much and he said 6 pounds hm i won't retire on this comission. i thought how rude and didn't buy again. can i also point out that i am a bad speller and i type too fast for my brain, but i would appreciate no-one picking me up on it. thanks

HappyDays, you think this is bad, you wait until the next breast v bottle, smacking, mmr sahm v working mums, gf v ap...debates come up!!! This is tame by Mumsnet's past standards

And wait until Badmamma shows up again. She is like a stealth bomber who sneaks in, delivers her attack and then disappears again! Hi Badmamma

By the way, I am convinced that she is a regular poster's wicked alter-ego...any ideas?

Wow, now this is heating up isn't it? I've actually just come back today from the New Year Kleeneze Conference in Birmingham -learnt some great stuff.

Helenmc - I LOVE U! I do! Thank you! You DO know your stuff. (I should have guessed you did Amway, are you USA based? I'm sure you said you were, or was I dreaming? Pyramid selling is, as you say, totally illegal and nasty.

People 'invested' in different levels of stock and on the marketing plan. Hence lots of different money levels.

Apparently, when all this pyramid scam stuff was about, Kleeneze got together with the Department of Trade and was, I can say proudly, instrumental in setting up the Direct Selling Association which now monitors this industry. The Network Marketing Plans of today are hence the amalgamations of the best and legal bits - but sadly, the stigma remains.

Just out of interest - any organisation you can think of works in a pyramid shape... from government, i.e primeminister, down to deputy pm, chancellor of exchec. and other first line cabinet ministers and so on.... everything goes like that.... businesses, schools, police, shops, there's always people at the top filtering out to more at the bottom!

People thought AMway was pyramid selling and I did Amway for 18 months and only ever made about 64 quid (!) even though I thoroughly saw the logic of and believed in the plan.

But we all start at the same level. In Kleeneze, we all invested 65 quid for kit and catalogues. (Refundable) The only thing that determines the earning levels is actually, the length of time you've stuck to the business ( it can be bloody hard work) and the amount of activity you do....

I can and will earn what the highest guy earns now, when I've been in as long as he has. He's been doing this for 11 years and quit as a teacher. He earns a ridiculous 60 grand per month. Not b.s. I actually saw his cheque, but he's been doing it for nearly 11 years. There's LOADS of people just under his earning level too. I NEVER saw this many achievers in Amway. He does exactly the same things as me, but I've only been doing it for a year and I earn around 1500-2000 pounds pm. I KNOW nothing will stop me getting to his level - it's been proved by all the others in between us!

I learnt some brilliant facts today.

1. Kleeneze just turned over 1m pounds in 2002, based in UK and Southern Ireland only.

2. • They pay out OVER HALF their turnover in distributor royalties- How about that! They always have, and always will do! That's why we get such delicious royalties (not to mention BMW's/ 'conferences' in Mauritius, Dubai etc... but that's ANOTHER story!)

3. There are only 17,000 distributors registered at the moment and out of those, only 7,000 are actively placing orders. There's room for absolutely loads more of us.

Tigermoth - Hiya again . Yes, there's lots of business/self development training which I've found a great help. People can and do apply lots of these sessions to all areas of life, my other half is an actor - (well, when he gets paid for it!) and it's helped his confidence no end. But on the whole, I think that when you start building this business, most people find it so exciting to see it take off, and helping others (I know that sounds really cheesy, but it really is fulfilling!) normally they stick around.

Jasper - hiya, - I also provide free info packs as well, but because I work for myself and NOT Kleeneze, people are responding to me personally and not to a Network Marketing Company. I prefer to have a phone number to phone first to check that I've got the address right and to see if they want a video/and or a cdrom of the business opportunity. Also, if I say straight off, "Hi, I stick Kleeneze catalogues through doors and team build and train" - how many people will get the full picture of what this great opportunity can offer them? That's just my way of building the business. It works for me. There's about 25 of us in our team now all building our own little empires....hoho

WWW- I couldn't sell an igloo to an eskimo, let alone products to my family friends... ugh. I'd be too embarrassed. There are some that do it that way, but mostly, we just stick a catalogue in a door (run away in case someone sees us!) and go back 2 days later to pick it up. There's either an order there, or not. It's that simple.

Any door, in any street. I don't have to know them at all. It's the easiest way I know to move products. No demos, no parties, no product knowledge required. Love it. As I said, thankfully, the products move themselves. My mum hasn't even looked at a catalogue! My friends may pick them up if they're here, but I've never had to ask anyone to buy anything! Heaven!

I'm sorry I've rambled on. Bed calls... it's dp's birthday tomorrow so I've got to wrap some pressies! night night

Munchkinsugarpie, you sure there shouldn't be a Ha Ha Ha Ha at the end of your message a la the Green Goblin or someone?

Message withdrawn

eeek munchkinsugarpie, I think I've just realised who else you are here!

Your monthly income sounds very impressive even now. No wonder you are happy!

How many hours a month do you spend on this? and what proportion of people place orders via the catalogue - I know it's not the main part of your business but I am interested non the less.

Don't think it's for me but this thread makes great reading.

Jerry Springer?? LOL. I've certainly never slept with my DHs bestfriend's sister or whatever bizarre things they seem to get up to on there I'm not sure "I got misrepresented on Mumsnet!" would make very controversial viewing. Then again, some of the other threads might be suitable

Maybe we should get some virutal versions of JSs "security men" though...

And on the phonenumber matter, after getting obscene phone calls immediately after our telephone company installed Broadband, I don't give my phone number to anyone I don't know personally.

Damn damn damn! I told mysself I wasn't going to look here again.

the trouble is there are so many bad companies out there that give others a bad name, i do avon which involves selling to friends and family as well as putting books through doors, its hard work at first until you establish your client base, people can be really rude when you put a book through, all they have to say is not interested and they won't see one of my books again for at least a year, when i try again (incase they move/passed on/someone moves in that is interested). i can't believe how rude they are at times, you need a thick skin, i have to pay for the brochures and reuse them. good luck anyone trying this sort of thing.

hmm just one other question, say you spend five hours a week for a month sticking catalogues through doors and picking them up again. What happens if say, only 10 people place orders? And you then spend a further 10 hours that month trying to recruit people and none say yes? I can well imagine this happening to me if I did kleenze for a month.

I mean, unless you have been inundated with emails direct to you via your mumsnet message, the response here has hardly been overwhelmingly pro kleeneze. So transfer this to me talking to my friends and I really can't see how I'd drum up many recruits. No recruits, no training courses and so, presumably, no royalties.

I still can't see how anyone can start making money from this.

just read tigermoths comments, i do hope that you are not thinking i am also m-sugarpie, if you so you couldn't be more wrong. if you ask me i agree with soupdragon, and think that m-sugarpie likes what she does, maybe she should try ilovemyjobloads.com !! (no i am not jealous) oh go on maybe a bit

no happydays, I don't think it's you

pleased to know that

Munchinsugarpie - we 're in the Uk, and came up with some very over zealous distributors which juts put every-ones backs up. I believe every-one should be given a chance. I don't like those companies that take advantage of those who are vulnerable.

However the majority of those that stick with it (and don't give up after they realise its not quick and easy way to get rich) are lovely people. It juts wasn't for us at that time in our lives. We're on Plan B where dh wants to start his own electrian's business.

Now do I get comission for such a glowing reference....heee hee I think my alter-ego is going to be the sugar plum fairy

Erm, how can everyone who sticks to the plan earn 60k pm? Mathematically, that just isn't possible, there's only so much money in the pot, only a limited number of Kleeneze customers.

About 5 yrs ago I subscribed to the telephone preference service - got rid of all those nuisance sales calls overnight.

we're not in the phone book, but still on directory enquires. Didn't cost anything and saved a lot of nusiance calls.

WWW Now I'm really confused.. I'm truly not anybody else here.. do u mean using another nickname, cos I'm definitely not! Who's green goblin?

Hiya Tigermoth... Network marketing is just a numbers game... I certainly do work more than 5 hours a week at it... more like 20 hours plus...but only about 8/10 hours a week of that is taken up with the catalogue side. Of course most people don't order.. of course most people won't join.. but on average we get approx. 1pound per order for every catalogue put out... so say if I put out 200 catalogues I'll get 200 pounds approx. in orders.... but only about 10 people will probably order... average orders are about 10-15 pounds each. So when I deliver goods, I only go back to 10 houses.

We have all sorts of methods of showing this business to people... adverts, flyers, posters, cards, word of mouth... and NEVER unsolicited phone calls. I couldn't cold call to save my life. People are only ever contacted if they want to know about the business. Then if they say no, I just move on.

I'm truly too busy to sell to people on the phone. Why on earth would I? I can't make (and wouldn't want to) make someone want to join the business if they don't want to. It's a waste of time for me and for them. Because it's a numbers game I speak to loads of people..... I'm not selling the plan, just showing it and if people are interested, fine. If not, also fine!

You wouldn't believe the levels of income earned... We're on the lowish end... I can't explain how,cos I'm not sure of the mathematics myself. although I do have testimonials and income cheques photocopied to support it. I've also spoken to loads of these people. One brilliant guy started at 58 after being made redundant and with no pension. Now he's 67 and drives a roller (his lifes passion). He earns 15 grand a month. But it took years of hard work and dedication!

It's not easy cos most people are doubtful so it can take a long time. Helenmc's right, once most people see that this is not a get rich quick scheme and you DO have to work hard to get there, they can't be bothered. It's only a few who grab the bull by the horns and run!

Talk to u later|!

munchkinsugarpie, the Green Goblin is a Spiderman character, I wasn't suggesting you were someone else here, not at all, just thought your post sounded a bit like Kleeneze world domination stuff. So my comment was a joke, no offence intended, not at all.