For all who want GF banned from MN - so does she!!

[mummygow]

As you are all prob aware I follow the Gf routine and am also on her website and this was posted for us to see.

Dear Members,

In response to your emails regarding the statement in The Times Newspaper on 9th May 2006. We would like to confirm that neither Gina or her lawyers have put pressure on Mumsnet regarding the criticism that her methods receive on their forums. Gina was forced to seek legal
advice regarding other very serious issues with Mumsnet, and we will in the near future make a public statement as to her reasons for this. It would appear that some Mumsnet members are demanding a ban of the
Gina Ford name on the site. Gina herself would welcome this, as her forthcoming statement will confirm, she has for very valid reasons, no wish to be associated with the Mumsnet site.

but that's exactly what common sense is - using your own good sense without specialised knowledge and instinct having a gut feeling for knowing what to do in a situation - I feel sure you must have acted instinctively many times?

God....this is one of those threads where I just typed out a huge post and thought "Oh Fuck it" and deleted it all.

I only know one person in RL who used the book, she showed me it once...she'd even written notes in the margins.

I remeber being horrified and but also feeling sympathy for her.

These books came out after my two were little (I think...I might just be being dim and missed them I suppose)

I always read the threads and feel I have missed out on a significant sociological 'event'

I think, Jools, that a lot of it is to do with the "professionalisation" of babycare and childcare and childbirth for that matter.
also, it is to do with the fracture of communities and families, which mean that firstly people don't grow up seeing babies and how people deal with them
and also people don't have any practical experience of looking after children before they have their own.
you would be amazed how many people in antenatal classes have never even picked up a baby let alone looked after one.
I don't think we are necessarily born with common sense about lots of things - it is learned in the family/home/community. just sort of absorbed naturally. but not any more.
and this lack of experience is compounded by the marketing of books and gurus offering simple solutions.

Frankly that's what something like MN is here for - to help people and draw together lots of people's experiences and commonsense. Many new parents are completely clueless and really don't have the confidence to find their own parenting style. Unfortunately, it's made very clear that unless you follow the GF books TO THE LETTER it won't work and it will all be your fault. Not everyone has the confidence to dare to deviate from the 'rules' and find their own happy medium. And it's fine that the author prefers the routines to be follows exactly, but don't expect us all to agree.

I think HC is right, currently the percieved norm seems to be a fairly regimented form of parenting and you can feel pretty bad if your child doesn't adhere to the behaviour that is seen as 'good' at the moment.

The other thing I've been thinking of overnight that makes me feel very CROSS, is the implication by Ann Clough on this thread that the thread she linked to is one of 'dozens' that are "an example of the colourful way some Mumsnet members chose to express themselves", that she "she wishes to make sure that she is in no way connected to these type of threads" and that "it would be easy for the general public to assume that this is the type of discussion that Gina herself endorses on a parenting website".

Apart from the implication that the general public must be fairly thick, there are plenty of posters on that thread who have given, and will continue to give, much time and energy to help and support masses of Mnetters through some actual problems and crises as well as through the daily grind. I really resent the implication that these individuals should be defined by that thread as though it is somehow representitive of them and their contribution to this site.

I'm aware I'm rambling, but I am very, very cross about this whole thing, and I we could just go back to chatting and helping people and discussing things without the involvement of lawyers & brands.

I'm sure if I had been handed my baby and hadn't read anything I wouldn't have had any idea what to do..even after I had one I thought that once they got to about 18 months they were much the same as a 4 year old ie could talk, be reasoned with, do as they were told, concentrate etc!!

If I hadn't been instructed on feeding and sleeping I don't think I could have just instinctively known what to do

in fact i came on mn originally because my dd was having a baby and I still felt I needed advice and education on the subject!

oh look I lost loads of the post and my typing is rubbish

also meant to say, that books which detail day to day routines etc. are very attractive to people who don't have confidence in how they're going to parent, and so they are a very attractive proposition. Which is fine, but I think it's also why people get so very passionate about the routines, because they have in a sense saved their lives. I just think it's a shame that there is little room for manouevre, as it is implicated that if you change things a little bit, it won't work. As if all babies are exactly the same, and tidy little things who just need to be told what to do.

Professionalisation is the right word (lots of women will say "I treat being a SAHM as a job", for example) - there is little emphasis on just being with your baby and observing cues. Mind you, you still need to know what to do on those cues...
We are sort of expected to do something from the very beginning but I remember it taking about 4 months before I had 'got to know' my baby. In the meantime, I was at a bit of a loss - not realising that there is very little to do that doesn't involve soothing/feeding/keeping clean/gazing adorably etc.

(Or am I romanticising this a bit?)

zippi you're a grandma?

well you learn something new everyday!

btw HC good post - you're probably right

Pruni - another good post - I agree with that.

interestingly, having rejected the what are you doing picking her up and feeding her again you have only just fed her stuff from helpful people when my babies were little, I was quite shocked to discover that ideas from the fifties seemed to have come back into fashion.

I think they were popular in the fifties because of the introduction of the health Service and the hospitalisation/medicalisation of birth for the masses. It was convenient for babies to be kept in nurseries in hospital and mothers stayed in hospital or convalescent homes for much longer and nurses liked a routine to their wards. If celebrities/wealthy parents have maternity nurses then presumably a strict routine is what they want by and large too.

think you're right about the 50s there zippi

yes I'm a grandma..I came on mn about two and a half years since when my dd2 told me she was having a baby! And she didn't give me much time to get my head together

Jools I'm surprised you're surprised

I didn't know either Zippi

But I am rather slow on the uptake.

I didn't realise that Hub2dee was a bloke

my dgs has just had his second birthday..because my dd2 has needed a lot of support then I follow a lot of the littlies stuff on here

I didn't know your were a grandmother either zippi! Agree with what you say about medicalisation/hospitalistaion of birth in the 50s.

I don't think this debate has been childish at all (mostly)

I enjoyed the childish bits

sorry

i have an aunt who due to family circs, adopted her grandson.she had had 4 children herself who were all grown up. and thought she had better buy herself a book to get up to date on all the new things in parenting.she bought gina ford.

i spoke to her after a while and she was going nuts trying to fit into all the routines etc.i told her to bin it.this is what it did to an older very experienced mum.just imagine the effect on a new first time mum.

zippi, I had no idea either.

didn't even realise you were old !!!

Blimey, mb.... and I thought you were clever.

zippi are yoa young grandmother? ie 38 or some such??

agree with wwwontslagoff's post of 9:55:51 am

I wait to hear what this serious issue is. I know GF has attracted personal,negative comments along the way, but surely all the positive publicity here in the last few years far outweighs that?

I have been thinking about the mumsnet people I know and like here who used GF methods to some extent, like bloss, bossykate and pupuce. It must be painful for some people reading the messages on various threads here. I am absolutely sure GF methods do work for some people at some times and that for some people, it is a wise, logical decision to have chosen them. I can't comment much because I have never read the book, but I realise people must have very good reason to swear by the method.

My anti GF legal action stance is not anti GF methods. True I did not choose to follow GF, but I respect the fact that other mumsnetters do choose GF and I am really sorry for any hurt these threads are causing them.

I agree with all HC, Pruni, Arfy and Zippi have said.

I also think though, that gut instinct can be hugely relied on by a great many parents. I did with my first baby.

I should also add, however, that i was lulled into a fall sense of security by her easy going nature, when i had DS last year, he was the complete opposite. I fell back on to CLBB in desperation at my apparent lack of parenting skill to manage two and in fact found it even more distressing that firstly - i couldnt cope with DS like i had DD, and secondly that even following a book to the letter still didnt work. (which was doubly hard when countering the fact that its a strict routine and i also had a toddler to contend with).

Sorry, thats a rambling post....but i suppose my point is that I believe to some people her books im sure are marvellous if you have an easygoing baby like my DD, or lack basic knowledge.

If you have a child like my DS was, who screamed night after night and pretty much all day, leaving him to cry was far more damaging to my confidence and state of mind because i felt like I had further failed him and me.

I'm utterly astounded that GF declares with no shame whatsoever that she insisted a breast-feeding mother give her baby formula. For me, that says it all about her method's suitability for a mother who wants to breastfeed, unless she's adapted that method since.

And I love the way Ann Clough chooses a thread where we chose to "express ourselves colourfully", when for every thread like that there are at least ten where we express ourselves with considerably more intelligence, coherence, logic, humour, wit, wisdom, knowledge and compassion than can be found in most places on the www.

Bum toss arse.