Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

..the village where children are banned..a new kind of utopia?

89 replies

zippitippitoes · 08/04/2006 07:02

You also have to be over 45 years old, no starting the car after 9.00pm etc etc

\link{http://www.guardian.co.uk/family/story/0,,1748634,00.html\ here}

a taste of the article

<

'There comes a time when you want to live without children'
............

"It's like Britain was 30 years ago, where you live among considerate and polite neighbours. If a stranger comes into the village, everyone will take notice," says Eden Guisley, the chair of the Firhall Residents Association.

Some residents have children and grandchildren of their own, but feel that they have done their bit and now want to be free of the problems that living among them can bring. "Everywhere you go today you are expected to pander to the needs of children," one home-owner, who has asked not to be named, tells me. "They are noisy, messy and destructive, but try and complain to the parents, and nine times out of 10 you will make yourself an enemy," she says. "I have to put up with badly behaved children in restaurants and parks. I want my neighbourhood to be free of that."

There have been legal challenges to child-free communities in the US. In 1977, a couple was forced out of their Florida condominium after having a baby. The unsuccessful age discrimination suit went as far as the supreme court. There have been other successful cases since then, but none that conclude that living without children should be seen as discrimination. In the UK there are those who believe no one has the right to exclude children from any neighbourhood.

Carolyn Hamilton, the director of the Children's Legal Centre, is adamant that such communities should be challengeable under the Human Rights Act. "If nothing else, it perpetuates the stereotype of children as nuisances and criminals.">

communities for special interest groups of all kinds could follow which is what is happening in the US

OP posts:
SenoraPostrophe · 09/04/2006 13:33

and who would "they" be, flutterbee?
shall we make it the law? 50% of all restaurants must allow children.

think it's silly.

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 09/04/2006 13:37

I think if you go to a pub with a large play area then you would expect children to be playing around in a lively way..

however I've taken children to posh restaurants where they have been excellent company and they have eaten their food from the adult menu and we have all enjoyed ourselves..the california grill at disney world was one adult orientated place

some of the worst meals I have had have been when sat near a load of braying adults behaving badly

OP posts:
Caligula · 09/04/2006 13:42

But why is "child-free" a good idea? Why would you automatically object to the fact that one of your fellow diners happens to be 8?

The normal rule is that as a diner you don't behave in a way that disturbs the enjoyment of anyone else. I think kid's behaviour should just be covered by that. Restaurants have the right to refuse admittance to anyone they don't want to serve.

What's behind the child-free idea, is the automatic assumption that children will be behaving badly. Which to be fair, is often the case in the UK. And again, we have 2 solutions - one is to accept the fact that kids behave badly and segregate them from childless adults by inventing atrocious warehouses where they can go and throw themselves around soft shapes and then throw processed crap down their necks, the other is to make them behave properly and integrate them with the rest of society.

I guess I just don't believe that in general, groups in society have the right to demand that they live separately from each other. Imagine if it were the other way round and a gated village was set up which said that as soon as you hit 40, you were out - and no one over 40 to visit for longer than a fortnight.

Caligula · 09/04/2006 13:44

You could have villages where they could inspect the percentage of hair on your head which was grey and if it were over 50% you'd be evicted. You could also have a wrinkle count - imagine the increase in botox injections! Grin

OK I'm being silly now. I ought to go and pay some attention to my kids and teach them some table manners so that they'll be able to behave in a restuarant Wink

hulababy · 09/04/2006 13:46

Children don't learn to behave appropriately for the situation if they are not allowed, or banned, from such sutautaions, such as restaurants. We have taken DD at least once a week to eat and rarely go to so called children's pubs or restaurants. We much prefer to go out to a nice restaurant and have a nice meal. DD knows how to behave when out and is far less noisy and less rude than many adults in such places!

flutterbee · 09/04/2006 13:57

Sorry I don't understand your post senora!

I suppose the best way to think about it is that, all of us on here having this discussion probably have very well behaved children as someone just said who behave better than the adults, but I think you would agree that it is fair to say that a lot of children are not well behaved and the parents do nothing to help. So when you go out for a nice quiet day with your dh, dp or dw you know a day that is meant to be romantic just the 2 of you to get away from kids in general (mostly your own) then is it not fair that you should be able to go into a restaurant that has no kids around.

flutterbee · 09/04/2006 13:59

And for the last time just in case people do not understand me I am not advicating a blanket ban on children in restaurants I am just saying that it is not a form of racism (as someone claimed earlier) to have SOME restaurants that do not allow children.

Zippi - that is my poiunt totally if you go to one then expect children but surely you should have the choice to go to one without kids?

flutterbee · 09/04/2006 14:00

*please excuse spelling I'm juggling the 5 month old.

hulababy · 09/04/2006 14:01

But surely it is just a form of discrimination and a way of isolating a sector of society? As a family, when we go out, why should we be relegated to only certain places just because some children have not been shown the appropriate way to behave in a restaurant?

hulababy · 09/04/2006 14:02

And I do NOT want to take my daughter to just some "children's" pub. For us going out for a meal is not about us eating and DD playing. It is about us all sat enjoying a meal together, talking and having some good quality family time together.

flutterbee · 09/04/2006 14:05

So we should not allow adults only dining at all ban all adults only dining, so what about adults only holidays I suppose there discrimination as well people should not be bloody allowed to enjoy a honeymoon without kids how dare they.

Our poor precious darlings not being allowed in 1 out of 10 restaurants how will they or us cope.

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 09/04/2006 14:09

I'm sure there are plenty of esoteric restaurants where scarcely any children do go, because parents probably wouldn't want to spend that amount on a meal for a child..butI find the idea that children (or even people under 45)are a separate species is well odd

it is one of the things that I dislike about this country, too much emphasis on individual group interests..society benefits from less of that not more

OP posts:
hulababy · 09/04/2006 14:13

No, that's fine. But don't relegate children to just "kid's" pub type place. There are some children who do know how to behave and who do not cause a noise or disturbance when eating out. Let them be allowed to eat at nice places too.

Oh, and I do go to some adult only places - was in a wine bar yesterday which was over 21s. Was lovely. And not suitable for children at all really.

Have no problem with restaurants making their own entry rules but would hate to see it be the norm or the expectation for children to be banned or excluded. They are a big part of our sciety and can only learn how to behave propely if given the chance to experience things.

jasper · 09/04/2006 14:33

where do I sign?

sobernow · 09/04/2006 14:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
zippitippitoes · 09/04/2006 15:02

sobernow which thread was that

OP posts:
tigermoth · 09/04/2006 16:11

I too think children should be allowed in restaurants as long as they are well behaved.

However, the problem of badly behaved children in restaurants is only one side of the coin. What about not wanting my children to witness the antics of badly behaved adults? Do I want them to see some lovey couple slobbering over each other, some drunken stag night group swearing at each other, some suited bore having a go at the waiter for no reason?

sobernow · 09/04/2006 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tigermoth · 09/04/2006 16:22

sobernow, I'd be interested in seeing that thread, too. I am friends with a couple - childless by choice AFAIK and in their late 40s. I have known them for years, the husband is a very good friend of mine. However I've noticed how they are beginning to draw away from groups with children in them and make big and IMO innacurate generalisations about family life.

They move home quite frequently as they like to do up and sell properties. They seem to choose properties and locations where children are not catered for much. I think their day to day contact with children is getting less by the year partly due to the places they have chosen to live in.

I have noticed they have become more prejudiced against children and more defiantly childless and proud of it. They can say quite hurtful things without meaning to. I wonder if this is cause and effect?

motherinferior · 09/04/2006 16:24

And on the other hand I'm off on Thursday - with my partner and kids - to see friends who are child-free by choice and are utterly welcoming, interested in the Inferiorettes, solicitous about everyone's eating preferences...and indeed am nursing slight hangover after dinner last night chez a single friend who is very similar.

sobernow · 09/04/2006 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tigermoth · 09/04/2006 16:32

yes, sobernow, I definitly think they are keen to justify their decision especailly as there is no going back on it now.

Lucky you, MI. Hope you have a lovely time.

I also agree that Firhall is weirder than just being child free. Those other rules must mean something. What's the overall justification? anyone fancy doing some internet research on the community?

motherinferior · 09/04/2006 16:33

I think you're right about the justification. Look at how much most of us go on and on about how we wouldn't swop our children for anything Grin

sobernow · 09/04/2006 16:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

motherinferior · 09/04/2006 18:23

Or a week alone

Swipe left for the next trending thread