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Original poster

Family drama - could really do with some advice.

31 replies

needsomeadvice · 20/03/2006 09:58

I'd rather not post my name here in case someone I know in RL should recognise me but hope I won't be considered a troll.

There's a bit of history here.

My dh's parents have had a business for a number of years - they are really terrible at what they do and have cut corners (illegally in many cases) not paid people and generally were in such bad shape a couple of years ago that they were on the brink of everything collapsing around them, it didn't help that MIL was conned, rather equisitely to the tune of about 150 thousand pounds!

Just over a year ago my dh decided enough was enough and that he was going to help them out, sort out the business, strip the rot and get them making some kind of profit. he wasn't going to do it for free either (it's important to mention this for later) So for the last year dh has been working for at least 90 hours a week (he also has a really busy FT job) he hasn't had any time to spend with us except for four hours on a Sunday. We've seriously gone without and we have remortgaged our house and ploughed 60 thousand pounds back into their business.

I came up with a suggestion which dh went with (his parents have given him full control of the business now)and it looks like a deal is pretty much on the table and they have been offered a huge amount by a VC to buy the business completely. As they were likely to be left with nothing a few years ago my PIL said to dh and I that if we made any money from helping them that we would be entitled to half of all profits.

The problem now is dh's brother - who turned the other cheek when we asked if he could contribute initially with time or money to help- wants to have a share and is asking for a third of the money for doing absolutely nothing. Whilst we've all gone without and my children haven't had holidays, treats or their dad for a while he has enjoyed his lifestyle without a care in the world.

I am being a money grabbing cow? The brother stands to inherit the pil's house BTW - he won't be left skint in any way.

I feel bitter as the brother only ever bothers to see his mum if he wants favours (usually money)and now he is trying to put a claim on this money we look certain to have in a few months.

OP posts:
desperateSCOUSEwife · 20/03/2006 10:02

tell bil to wind his neck in and p* off
he deserves nada

CarolinaMoon · 20/03/2006 10:03

No you're aren't - sounds totally fair to me. Don't let him elbow his way in.

Well done to you and your dh for turning it round btw Smile.

TearsBeforeBedtime · 20/03/2006 10:03

agree with DesperateScousewife.

Blu · 20/03/2006 10:06

Your DH put in the feeort as a BUSINESS deal. Hew is now reaping the beneifits of that succesful business. Since BIL was not part of the business, he needs to keep quiet. Anyway, it sounds as if the PIL are resolved, so what's the risk? Are the PIL likely to fall for BILs beseeching tales? Your DH needs to have a businesslike chat with them about his investment of time and money.

Good luck!

throckenholt · 20/03/2006 10:07

the business venture is nothing to do with the brother (no more than it would have been if it had been your DH's business to start with).

It is between your DH and his parents - if his parents want to give him half of their share then that is up to them, but no way should the brother get an equal share of the whole thing.

quanglewangle · 20/03/2006 10:15

I agree, don't let him in on it. Kick his foot out of the door.

katyp · 20/03/2006 10:16

Agree with Throckenholt. I can't see that he has any legal claim on the money. If your pils want to give him or leave him in their will a percentage, that is their business

Original poster
needsomeadvice · 20/03/2006 10:16

Whata relief, I thought I was going to get scathed here and called a money grabber!

Thanks for your support. And yes BIL is pulling every emotional string going with his parents which they are falling for, bursting into tears, telling them we refused his help (a lie!) etc.

I know he will get his paws on it - I just have a horrible nagging feeling.

OP posts:
CarolinaMoon · 20/03/2006 10:18

hmmmm. Maybe time for your dh to get some legal advice on this?

Normsnockers · 20/03/2006 10:21

I think to avoid any animosity between the two brothers (which could extend into a lifetime rift way beyond the death of the parents), your dh needs to ask the PIL'S to have a talk with his brother about how bad things were and how much his brother plus you and the kids have gone without to put things right. They should mention that you risked your own money as part of a business deal for a stake in the business and he (from the sound of it) had the same opportunity but did not do so.

The monies from their remaining stake in the business is his potential inheritance fund and the PIL'S can split it as they see fit in their will or spend it on round the world cruises and their retirement.

The business nature of the deal needs to be made clear to him to try and nip in the bud any "he's getting more of an inheritance than me whinging that such pathetic people trot out".

If it was documented and witnessed by a solicitor all the better. If it was not documented at the time it might be advisable to get the understanding down in writing now and independently witnessed before the VC deal goes through or your dh's brother weedles round his mother and plants misplaced seeds of guilt or duty.

Original poster
needsomeadvice · 20/03/2006 10:27

He knows we put our own money in and how much and even told us we were crazy spending that and the time as there was no way we could resurrect the business.

Yes he is started to moan about the fact that he is entitled to the money and it is his birth right. Shock

OP posts:
Normsnockers · 20/03/2006 10:40

Birthright my ar5e !

His "birthright" if that's the way he sees it was going to be worth diddly squat if your dh hadn't stepped in.

I don't agree with this sit on your backside and expect to inherit crap, or weedling/toadying for an inheritance.

Is FIL stronger that MIL ?

Maybe FIL needs to have the chat with your dh and BIL at the same time so that there is no misunderstanding about what is being said. Harder too for BIL to lie about his financial support offer being turned down by your dh if dh is in on the chat.

Would PIL'S agree to there being no more one to one chats about the sale proceeds of the business without all parties to the sale present. This technically excludes the BIL but he could be allowed to receive minutes of the meetings.

The whole thing needs to be put on a more professional footing and your DH needs to get PIL'S to set out in writing the original terms of the agreement and have it signed by them , dh and a third party independent witness. If they aren't inclined to put pen to paper dh can produce a draft copy for discussion with his parents but either way it needs doing a.s.a.p.

Original poster
needsomeadvice · 20/03/2006 10:46

NormsK - sounds all very feasible and I agree with you about the whinging and toadying! I'm not sure if BIL should be sent minutes of the meeting, would it not be worse if he had all this info about the buy out?

OP posts:
quanglewangle · 20/03/2006 11:00

Yes, better get a legal framework in place asap - before he manages to wheedle his way in further. It will get harder to refuse him if he gets more convincing.

meggmoo · 20/03/2006 11:10

You hear stories like this all the time don't you?

I'm Shock at his cheek but your brother has shown his true colours, at least you know that now.

I'd tell him to sod off, does he also ask for your husbands Xmas bonus too? He's about as entitled to that as he is to the money from the business IMO

Normsnockers · 20/03/2006 11:11

It would most probably be worse if he did have minutes. Although, how much info is he already weedling out of his parents ?

If possible don't give him any minutes but make sure there are minutes of meetings with PIL'S and dh to demonstrate later that it was all above board and in accordance with the agreement.

I know it's bolting the stable door a little late but get the agreement documented a.s.a.p. and ensure that your dh isn't dependent on his parents passing on his share of the VC sale proceeds but he gets it direct as a stakeholder in the business. This way they cannot set aside any funds for the other brother other than it coming out of their own share.

I am not a lawyer by the way but have seen many small family run "business agreements" where the advise to "put it in writing" has been ignored because "well, you know, its family after all". The potential for misunderstanding after the event doesn't bear thinking about and the sibling feuds go on and on which is very upsetting to the parents. If the parents had been stronger in their business sense and documented all business arrangements between family members properly there would be no misunderstanding even if spouses (daughters in law and sons in law can be evil) etc deliberately misrepresent the situation to others in order to play hard done by.

Original poster
needsomeadvice · 20/03/2006 17:24

I wondered if there were any others who could give an opinion or an idea as to handle this one cleverly.
Not that the advice here already hasn't been read,appreciated and considered. I love the -wind the neck in- comment.

OP posts:
soapbox · 20/03/2006 17:33

nsa - when your DH put the money into the business how was this treated by the company? Was it treated as a loan or a capital injection?

From a legal point of view the money from the sale of the business accrues only to the share holders.

If your DH is a shareholder he will get a sum equivalent to his proportion of the shareholding. The other shareholders will get theirs too.

What your PIL do with their share is entirely up to them from a legal point of view, if they want to divi some as a gift to BIL then they can choose to do so.

If your DH is not a shareholder, then he will have the right to his £60k loan to be repaid to him from the proceeds, but will be reliant on his PILs to divi up their money as they see fit!

I'm not sure a verbal agreement to share the proceeds in a certain way would carry much weight in law, unless there was a way of proving that the conversation took place.

It would be of interest to know whether your DH was paid a market salary during this period?

CarolinaMoon · 20/03/2006 18:02

This is why I reckon your dh should get proper legal advice to protect his position asap.

The fact that it's a family business can make the legal position even more complex, but there will still be a legal answer and that should be you and your dh's starting point for any negotiations that might reduce your share.

NannyL · 20/03/2006 19:20

I can see why you are mad.... sounds VERY unfair.

Agree with others.... get legal advice asap!

madmarchhare · 20/03/2006 19:21

Ditto DSW

wanderingstar · 20/03/2006 19:24

get

a

company

lawyer

involved.

Look up "Chambers Directory" to see who's good in your area.

Crystaltips · 20/03/2006 19:31

oooohh needsomeadvice .... is your name really crystaltips ?

I have gone all shaky and nervous and cross and sick and upset .... this is our situation ... you poor poor soul ...

This happened 4 years ago with DH's family ...

I cannot tell you that there was a happy ending ...

PILS took other BIL's sides ( there are 2 ) as they pulled the emotional strings and threatened allsorts .... they are always playing the "victim card"

I haven't seen the PILS or spoken to them in all that time ... and all the BILs / SILs ignore me at the school gates .... even though DH pulled then all out of a humungous hole ...

who said that life was fair Angry Angry

Original poster
needsomeadvice · 20/03/2006 19:46

wanderingstar - I have spoken to dh tonight and he doesn't want to involve a laywer and is resigned to the fact that BIL will get what he wants. Makes my blood boil, his family take the piss and he appears to be letting them Angry I'm as angry with dh for wasting the last 12 months of our lives.

SB- the money was treated as a cash injection and no dh is not a stakeholder. I'm starting to panic that this is going to blow up out of all proportion. Have found out today also that bloody SIL is asking what her share will be also - dh kept this news from me as he knew I'd go mad.(I did)

Crystallips - nightmare!

I guess the worse that can happen is they don't give us the 60k back and we get no money either due to all this mess.

Should point out too that dh hasn't drawn a penny of salary out since he started or charged petrol/air fares/phone expenses - which have been massive.

What a mug. I guess there is a huge lesson to learn here.

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/03/2006 19:56

His birthright is anything his parents want to give him surely.

That shouldnt affect your share. Well, i dont know the legal ins and outs but your PILS can do what they like with their half of the money.

That aside, this is not a family "windfall" its a business deal and as such - is none of BILs business.

I havent read the other responses fully - but - i would seek some legal advice if you could just to let you know where you stand.