Moral Dilema - Do I tell I'm Preggers?

[spikeycat]

Just need a bit of advice really, I went for an interview today for a small P/T job in an estate agents on a sunday. I didn't tell them I was 5 months pregnant (you can't really tell) but if they phone and offer me the job should I tell them then?

I know I'm under no legal obligation to do so but its just tricky...hmmmmmm - any advice?

I think I will prove the point though, I can't believe how stupid they have been, I told them I was the Senior HR Officer in my last role so you would think they would have had more sense! The way I see it, its not really about the money, the job etc, its the principle that they gave me a job then took it away because of my pregnancy, christ, I'm pregnant, not ill or brain dead!!

I was thinking of phoning them and pointing out what they have done is sex descrimination and illegal, but to be honest whats the point, I wouldn't want to work there now anyway. Think it would be much better for them to see a tribunal application pop through the post

Quite Spikeycat, quite. Good luck.

Nice one, spikeycat.

Good for you. Hope you make them do more than just squirm!

go go spikeycat!!
what a crappy company and they don't deserve you.

spikeycat, would it be worth a try to tell them that they may be in breach of the sex discrimination and maternity rights obliglations and would they care to reconsider their position? If they do their homework, they will be scared witless and probably offer you the job and if you accept, they will realise their initital assumptions were totally wrong and it may go towards their re-education. Your letter could also mention that if they re-offer you the job, the company will not make any similar employment law mistakes in the future!

I realise that you may want the company to suffer in a tribunal rather than take a job with them after the way they have behaved, so good luck with whatever you decide to do.

good luck with that spikeycat they definatly shouldent be alowed to get away with that.

It might be worth considering contacting one of ACAS's area offices. As I understand it, their staff can give advice on disputes that might be potential tribunal cases, and will try to conciliate to avoid the need for a tribunal. They might get you a cash compensation offer, to settle this without the need for a tribunal. Their website is www.acas.org.uk and they have a general helpline number 08457 474747. At the very least, they would give you some free advice.

Oh this is so funny, fancy being stupid enough to put in a letter that they are wirthdrawing the offer because you are pregnant.

HEE HEE HEE.

Take them to the cleaners girl!

Er, it may be illegal but I am sorry, if I ran a small company and I offered a job to someone and they turned round and said they were pregnant, I wouldn't be over the moon. I think it is a bit unfair of you to threaten legal action, you could put them out of business.

Am sure I will get heaps of slagging off for this but there is always a grey area, the real world is not black and white and sometimes 'your rights' should take a backseat to commonsense.

I am with you Olive Oil

I am with Olive Oil too

Had a big discussion last night with dh about this (he's always worked in small companies) and yes, it could put them out of business. But as he said, it's trivial for them just to go "bankrupt" and then immediately reform under a slightly different name (Bryco anyone?!!) so it's unlikely that you would get much out of them anyway.

My feelings are that an estate agent should know better, that they wouldn't have to pay SMP anyway and for 6 hours a week they're just being stupid. Estate agents have to be INCREDIBLY careful about many legal aspects as part of their jobs (descriptions, employee safety etc.), deal with solicitors daily, and really should have no excuse about being ignorant about employment law.

It's tricky, but small companies do have to be very careful about many aspects of employment law and many many discriminations don't even get noticed (oh, I won't employ them, they're too old... no I don't want another woman working for me because they might get pregnant... no a disabled person would be too expensive for the company because of all the conversions we would have to do) - it's categorically wrong but so difficult to prove because most happen at a very early stage of selection. In this case, it's extremely provable and really does sound like they need a wakeup call.

oliveoil - I would agree if this were a full time postition (which would require much training and messing about for covering the maternity leave).

But it's a Sunday job in an estate agents (a type of business not very likely to be on a knife edge financially at the moment).

How many people take on that kind of job and then leave after 3 months anyway? This way at least they get notice (and spikeycat says she'll onky take 3 weeks off). Blatant discrimination like this needs to be stopped.

Oliveoil,

I don't think there is any justification for this. Spikeycat was only going to take 3 Sundays off after the birth of her child for heaven's sake, and this was going to be out of her annual leave allocation!

No, I think this is dishonest. I think you should tell them that you are pregnant and they can decide to give you the job or not. This kind of dishonesty is IMO only contributing to further discrimination against women as they are seen as not playing by the rules.
Also, the chances are that they would be unhappy when they find out and it could ruin a good working relationship.

Are you obliged to let an potential employer know that you have a disabled child which may involve alot of time off in the future for hospital appointments etc????? Don't think so!
Can you imagine the UPROAR if an emplyer said, "No can't hire you, we've changed our mind coz you have a disabled child".....

OO - I think you are looking at this from a purely one-sided view! She was talking about having 3 DAYS,, yes that's 3 DAYS off!!!

I agree.... take them to the cleaners, cheeky bastards.

I agree, something should be done. They should not be allowed to get away with this - had SpikeyCat not said anything when they called to offer her the job, she would have started and then she would not have needed to tell them until something like 15weeks (??) before the baby was due - therefore she would have already worked 4 or 5 Sundays. Unfortunatley Woman are still discriminated against in the workplace, too much of a risk on the pregnancy front, time off for children...blah blah blah!!!

Total sexual discrimination - I will be watching this thread with much interest, so SpikeyCat keep us posted!!

M2T, I do see your point, but I still think it's fair to tell that you are pregnant.I know that women are discriminated against in the workplace. As a manager myself (before I had Ds) I discriminated against women myself. Feeling very bad about it now, but I didn't employ women with small children for example. I would definatly advise against telling an employer you had children. I comes across CVs where women had put "my 2 year-old-daugthter" under interests......A man would never do that!
I am totally pro family friendly policies in the workplace, maturnity leave,paternity leave, leave to care for dependants etc. However, I do think you "earn" these things. I think it's only fair that there is a minimum requirement to have worked for the company for some time before you have any real rights. Especially as this is not a big corporation. I

What would have happened if spikeycat had told them she had previously booked a fortnight's holiday abroad and so would not be able to work for three weeks which is all that this amounts to? I assume she would have been offered the job so it seems to be she is definitely being discriminated against.

Spikeycat will presumably be on such a low wage (for 6 hours a week) that the govt would pay her mat leave but she wasn't even going to have that but use her leave. Actually as far as a pregnant woman/mother goes they are onto quite a good bet. No ante-natal appts on a Sunday, no problem with ill children because their Dad will be available. So no excuse.

Fairymum - Why should you have to consider what size of business it is you are applying to?? Are they being that considerate to the woman who is applying?? NO!
I found out I was 5 wks pg 5 wks after starting my job. I didn't tell them straight away.... is that the same thing?????? Had I told them they could have let me go during my probationary period..... and they would have, so I waited!

But Fairymum she wasn't asking for any rights - just annual leave for a planned event.

Yes, I suppose you are right. 3 days doesn't seem much to ask for. I still believe honesty is the best policy. IMO, It's best to clear it with your manager that you might need time off around a certain time. Clearly a pregnant person means the company has to be more flexible. A baby doesn't always arrive on due date, unforeseen circumstances etc......I certainly would not have employed anyone pregnant. I remember once employing a woman to cover for another woman on maturnity leave. Turned out the cover was pregnant and I had to go out recruiting again. I admit to sticking to men from then on.....I know it is wrong, but it's how it works......

M2T, I think it's slightly different when you are 5 weeks pregnant. So many women don't even know they are pregnant at that stage. I know you can't always plan these things, but I do believe you should have worked for a company for a certain amount of time before you get pregnant and start requiring time off. I guess I also think size matters (!) because big companies have more resources and deal with these sort of things all the time. It will hit a smaller company a lot harder.

Fairymum - I am shocked and disappointed in your attitude.

Whether it'll hurt the company or not I really don't care!!! They don't care about their employees, we are afterall, just a number!