Do I talk to her mother?

[WigWamBam]

My dd has a best friend, N, they're always together and I think that dd has a bit of a crush on N, if the truth be told. Lately I've been a bit concerned because dd believes every word that N tells her, and will do anything if N says she should, even if she knows it's wrong. It's been silly little things so far, like jumping in a blocked-up drain so that she's soaked to the knees, but dd told me something today that made me a bit concerned.

My dd has short, curly hair - she's desperate for long hair but it just doesn't grow long enough or thick enough, and this morning she asked me to put it into a ponytail for her. I managed to scrape it up so that she had a bit of a ponytail, and dd said "Do you think that N will think I'm pretty now?" It turns out that N has been telling dd that she's ugly, stupid, and looks silly in her favourite school sweatshirt (she isn't, she's not and she doesn't!).

I've bolstered dd up a bit, told her she's gorgeous, that her hair looks lovely and that she looks really smart in her uniform (I always do tell her how nice she looks), and that if N says anything again she's to tell her "Stop being silly, I'm gorgeous and I look smart" - I don't really know what else to do. I can't tell her to avoid N because dd adores her, and I don't want to try and influence her choice of friends anyway.

But do I tell N's mother? We get on quite well, and she's a nice woman, but I don't know whether I ought to try and get her to reinforce to N that what she's saying is mean, or if that will just make matters worse. There have been one or two little things that dd has told me that makes me think N says things like this to her quite often, and I'd really like to try and nip it in the bud, if I can.

This is a tough one WWB. How well do you know the other mother? If quite well, then I would just come out and say what's bothering you. If you don't know her that well, then I guess giving you dd lots of positive reinforcement on how nice she looks is the way to go. How old is your dd? Her age would depend how much you could help her in dealing with the negative jibes she gets from her friend.

wwb, how about "friends don't call friends ugly, stupid and silly"?

I'd tell her that N is being very unkind and very silly. Which she is. I'm amazed sometimes how early the human desire to exert power over each other emerges.

They're both 4.5.

I know her mother reasonably well but she's not a friend, if that makes sense. We've taken the girls to each others houses and out to the park, but I don't really know her all that well.

My dd is pretty confident and outgoing, so normally I wouldn't have made too much of this, but she seems to have taken these last comments pretty much to heart.

for your dd that is.

approach the mother? will think about this one, it's tricky.

Oh poor kid, I bet she desperately wants this little girl to like her too kids can be so cruel sometimes.

I think you should speak to the Mum, I am sure she would want to know if her little girl was being so hurtful, I would want to know if it was my DD. Are they the same age??

There's a little girl over the road from us (she's 8 and my DD is 5) and my DD really looks up to her. Unfortunately this little girl can often be cruel and DD has come running in tears because she has been bad to her. I once had to hold DP back as he was going to go out guns blazing!!!!

I just had a word with her Mum as we too got on well, tbh though it didn't make much difference!!! There is not a lot you can do really is there?

I've told her that it's not a nice thing to say to anyone, and that friends should be nice to each other but she seems to hang on to every word that N says - as I say, I'd almost say she's got a crush on her.

Does dd have other friendships which you could actively encourage? This little madam is taking advantage of your dd's good nature and high regard. A few rivals on the horizon may kick N into touch or show your dd that friendships don't have to be this troubled.

Start by telling your dd that what her friend is asaying is wrong. Ask her if she would say that to someone who was her friend? Let her know it's ok for her to tell N that saying things like that makes her feel sad and it is unkind to say them. Give your dd a bit of the power back.

Agree with franke. Try and nurture some other friendships for your daughter and just keep reinforcing the "friends aren't unkind" message.

She has other friends - she's actually very popular with her peers and with the older children. She's very laid-back and easy-going, and the other children do seem quite comfortable around her, but her friendship with N seems to be the one she's most keen to nurture.

It's hard to tell her that her favourite friend isn't being nice to her, because dd just won't see it. She actually seems to believe that N is telling the truth, and that she's ugly, stupid and looks silly.

I've tried explaining that N might be jealous of dd's sweatshirt, or her curls, or the fact that she has other friends, but she won't hear a word against her.

I like bossykate's response

I have a very slightly similar situation with my 4.5yr ds and a well-liked friend at Kindy - they do willy and poo jokes all the time together but lately ds asked me if his lovely drawing of a unicorn was "just scribble" as it emerged his friend said it was. So yesterday I invited friend and very nice mother around to play in the back yard all afternoon and casually observed how his mother dealt with the inevitable willy jokes and, as aloha says the exertion of power albeit very subtley. The mother was on the ball, she was doing all the right things and I concluded that is is just Kindergarten power struggles and as long as the mother is on the case and checking the behaviour then all one can do is, as you are doing, arming your child with masses of self esteem and responses to hurtful situations.

of course I appreciate that it is, indeed, different for girls. But if you can observe the mother at close quarters you will have an idea of where this behaviour is coming from and how it is being recognised and dealt with, or not, and then you can steer dd away from N if needs be.

I like the idea of trying to get her to take some of the power back, just not sure how best to do that. I've told her in other situations that she's allowed to tell other children "I don't like that", but she never has - she just tends to stand and take it. I'll tell her that she is allowed to tell N that she's being unkind and that it's wrong to say things that make people feel sad, but I don't know how much notice she'll take of me.

Suzy, N's mother seems to have problems controlling her - from what I've seen it's N who holds the whip handle in their household, and her mother's attempts to stop bad behaviour (from what I've seen) seem pretty ineffectual.

I understand this completely wwb as we had exactly the same situation last year with my dd, who was 4.5 at the time. The girl that she had chosen to be 'best friends', E, with could be quite spiteful and would sometimes just blank her or run off when they were trying to play. My dd was (and still is) popular with lots of the other girls and after a while I came round to the thought that it was E's way of keeping my dd's attention in her, I encouraged other friendships, had some of the other girls over to play etc and now, although my dd still plays with E a lot, there isn't the same dependency.

I didn't speak to the mother as I wanted to let my dd sort it out for herself using the skills that I was trying to give her. It is REALLY hard but you can't choose their friends for them.....

Give your dd a big hug.

Oh..
It's going to be a tough one then. Poor little dd. On the other hand if you can steer her throught this at this age you will be setting her up well for adolescence.

Good luck

Setting her up for adolescence sounds about right! I didn't expect to be having to deal with this sort of stuff so early.

Lucycat, I wonder if this is N's way of keeping dd's attention on her - she tends to do things like telling dd that she'll only play with her at certain times, but dd just goes off and plays with someone else, so I wonder if there's a bit of jealousy and that's why she's trying to keep the upper hand in the relationship.

And they're only 4 ... heaven help us when they get a bit older and get more sophisticated at this power stuff!

Hi WWB I can't believe how cruel kids can be you DD is a lovely little girl and my DD loved playing in the park with her in the summer. I hope you can find a solution to this problem, but it will be very difficult if the mum has no control over the child in question.

Thank you - dd is lovely, she has a kind heart and a generous spirit, and I think she expects that others will be the same.

Thanks all, I don't think I'll bother talking to the mother, I think I'll just try and bolster dd instead and reinforce that she is allowed to tell her friend that she's being mean and saying nasty things. She's not very good at standing up for herself, maybe that's something I need to work on too!

WWB this really sounds like my ds and one of his friends last year in reception. This boy was always undermining him, making fun of what he had done, boasting when ds showed him something about how he had the same but bigger/better/first.

I dealt with it by talking with my son about friends, how they should make you feel, how they should talk to you and also, as you have done with your dd, bolstering his self confidence and assuring him he was a fantastic boy. A couple of times I witnessed the other boy behaving badly to ds and made it clear that that wasn't the way you talked to your friends and that his behaviour was not nice. I told ds that it was better to ignore a child who is being horrid to you than get cross and start arguing (this happened a few times). I also quietly encouraged other friendships. I did not talk to the child's mother as I had seen her in action with her son and I had no faith in her improving the situation.

DS is now year 1 and he has learnt to deal with this child effectively whilst still remaining friends. I have seen him doing it and been really proud of the way he brushes off the criticism and is prepared to walk away if this boy is behaving badly. I feel sorry for the child in question as I think his behaviour stems from his own lack of self worth and his need to make himself feel better at the expense of other children's feelings.

I think keep doing what you are doing with your dd, and teach her some strategies for coping with this child. Get her to practice saying 'I don't like that' with you if necessary. And encourage other friendships - the power balance will be effected if this child knows your dd has other children she can play with.

I have a niece who is a couple of years older but has had a similar problem since age 4. Does the other girl say these things in public or is it happening when the two of them are on their own? might be worth finding out. Also I think that trying to discoourage the friendship in any way will just make it more attractive to dd. My niece still prefers the attention and company of the girl who pinches and threatens her to any of the other kids in her class. Any psychologists out there please?

I think you are doing the right thing giving dd loads of positive messages about herself but I am guessing that she wants to hear them from someone who she thinks is 'cool' or who doesn't feel obliged to say nice things to her. It sounds like your dd is accepted by her peers but unfortunately, that is different to her feeling accepted in herself.

I don't think there is much mileage in talking to the other girl's mum but of course you can challenge anything that you do hear her say first hand at the moment it happens. You may have to wait until your dd gets fed up with this girl, but I'm afraid we are still waiting.
Good luck to you both!

gemma, I don't know whether she's saying things to dd in public or just in private. I won't discourage the friendship as I think that would make matters worse; I'd rather try and help dd to change the way the friendship works.

Puddle, that's such a wise post. Thank you - it sounds like very good advice. The situation sounds quite similar to my dd's, hopefully I can help her turn the situation round as your ds has done. I can see a little chat about friendships coming on!

I just thought it might make a difference because if she only says things when others are listening, it may help you to explain to dd that this girl is only behaving this way to show off to the other kids and not what she actually thinks. Take Care.

It seems that she's saying it in front of the other kids, so it may well be that she's trying to make herself look big in front of the other kids by making dd look small - in fact, the teacher had to take her out for a chat about how we speak to our friends when dd's ponytail fell out and N was taking the mickey out of her for not having much hair.

But something of what I told her has sunk in; N made some snide remark to dd after school today and dd came out with the "don't be silly, I'm gorgeous" line that I gave her this morning, and stalked off. Wonders will never cease - she actually listened!