I don't know where to start, but am very upset!

[Rhubarb]

My mother - again! I have a 30yr old brother who has special needs and he lives at home. Most of you will know the problems I have had with my mother, but in a nutshell she displays many of the symptoms of being both a Sociopath and having Munchausen's by Proxy. Over the last few years I have seen my brother deteriorate, his confidence is low as is his self-esteem. He goes to college on pointless courses just to give him something to do. Jobs never last because she will only let him work locally, if they provide transport and meet a whole load of other criteria and she never encourages him to stick at it. In short, she is failing him in so many ways.

Last year another mother contacted her to see if she was interested in letting my brother house-share with her son. The house was across the road from where my sister lives, he would have care from a team of 4 carers that my mum would employ, and they would try to lead an independant life as possible. Mum agreed, she couldn't really do otherwise, but she let everyone know that she thought it would fail, she wanted it to fail. She has attended meetings about it during the last year, but has left all the decisions to this other family, with the attitude that it wouldn't work. She couldn't tell you what was going on, nor very much about it, so I got the impression that she didn't really care. She chose one of the carers but failed to choose the other 3.

He moved in there 2 weeks ago amid much excitement, now she has taken him out - SHE has taken him out. She says he quarreled with the other guy and she knew all along it wouldn't work. My brother's confidence is going to take a real bashing now. All that hard work by the other family, the money put into it, etc. But she is going round saying to people "well, I tried, now I suppose I'll just have to look after him for the rest of my life" sympathetic eye roll, etc. She cannot let go of him, she needs him, she gets sympathy because of him, she can control him.

He is adopted and I need to know if we, his brothers and sisters, can apply for custody of him? I am so angry, I want to phone her and scream at her but that won't help. I hate her right now! And to top it all off, she has another foster child. She doesn't give a stuff about her own grandchildren, but she'll parade these children around at Church getting admiration and saintly praises. She's such a fucking hypocrite! I love my brother very much and I cannot stand any more of this. What do I do?

Oh god Rhubarb you poor thing - sorry don't have any advice, but hopefully someone else will

That is so crap cant admit to knowing about the system but surely social services can help or is that naive

Rhubarb, can you contact social services and air your concerns? This is a form of abuse, IMO.

Message withdrawn

I'm going to meet up with said siblings when I come back for Christmas. We are loathe to do something like this, it means of course that she'd have her fostering rights taken away too and the rift that is currently seething away will be bigger than ever. She'd never ever speak to me again or want to see my children, God knows what would happen actually! But it wouldn't be nice. However this has to happen sooner or later, she's mentally unstable ffs! She can't even look after herself let alone other people!

Haven't got any advice just wanted to say hello and sorry that you are in such a shitty situation

Hard decision but if she is really damaging ur brother so badly should she have fostering rights?

Rhuby - how awful!

Does your brother have a social worker or some kind of community support worker that you could contact direct.

I would imagine that they might have concerns themselves about your mother's abilities but are afraid to raise them precisely because she's a 'pillar of the community' type!

Perhaps if you and your siblings were to air your concerns then those who work with your brother would scrutinise your mother's behaviour more closely???

I think you are in a very difficult position. But feel that you really have to try and help your brother if you can find away to do so!

He does have a social worker, but now that he's 30 and supposedly in such good hands, they don't come any more.

Trouble is if you met my mum you would think she was the nicest person in the world. She goes on about how much she loves her grandchildren, how much she does for them, especially the one with DS yet she regrets that she simply cannot do enough! How she has looked after my brother all his life and will continue to do so, he doesn't work because there simply isn't enough organisation to help him get into work, and she's getting on you know, she can't keep getting up at 6am to get him ready for work! She did try this house-sharing once, but he wasn't ready for it, she knew that but she had to let him try! Now she'll just have to look after him herself! Course that's the way it should be isn't it? Family look after their own and all that. She goes to Church every week and her burdens aren't all that hard, God helps her and she prays so much, for everyone.

Honestly you would think you were in the presence of a saint! Everything she says seems so plausible! It's not until you come away and start to think that you realise that she's just pulled one over on you. She is a very powerful woman, she has caused hurt and pain to all of us and continues to do so, yet no-one believes my mum capable of any of this. It's very frustrating!

Here's the email I just got from my brother:

As for my mum she as allowed Phil to quit the house she set him up to fail and wont let go she needs him so she has some one to control. I am very disappointed but she will not listen so I am again in the bad books. There is such a rift now within the family its very sad' but our mother or Tracey will not address the problems because they cant see what they are doing wrong or should I say they wont listen. Mum has also got another foster kid great move. Take care I wish I lived far away.x

Anyone out there have any legal knowledge?
Anyone just tell me what to do? Anyone have a spare life I can borrow?

Anyone...............?

Thanks! x
Gotta go, not really in the mood for MN ifkwim. Just feel very very angry and very very helpless.

Rhubs dont have any advice sadly but loads of [[[hugs]]]] an thanks for the horse thread...... bloomin brill

Rhubarb - I guess your mum must need to feel needed IYKWIM. If she's looked after your brother to this degree for 30 years it must be v hard for her. I can see your point that she is ruining his life but maybe she really does need help

I know someone very similar. I don;' know what to suggest really as I am watching the same sort of thing unfolding (although children involved are much younger)- messing up other people's lives in the process. It's very difficult, and the whole thing makes me feel sick really.

I would hope that SS have the measure of her. Might be worth chatting to his SW- often SW can be a bit hmmm indiscreet in my experience.

Shocker Rhubarb - sorry to hear it.

No legal training, but I believe that the laws are different for over 18's (obviously), and I'm not 100% sure you can have custody of an adult, even with SN. If that's the case, then your mother has no custodial rights over him either. Are you aware of her legal standing regarding him?

I'm not sure if the law would protect you and your siblings if you physically took him away from her, or if it would protect her. Maybe worth investigating though? If your intervention is going to mean the end of your relationship, then it doesn't matter if you take the softly softly approach, or just walk in there and take him to live with one of you, or arranged another shared house.

Do you have a plan of what you would (all) do if you could? i.e. is it really a feasible option to take him into your care, potentially for the rest of your life?

Think I'm throwing up more questions than answers now - sorry. I really hope this works out for you - I can't imagine how hard this must be

Rhubarb,

unfortunately I'm not qualified to give you any advice - although you have my utmost sympathy - but what about Citizens Advice. I know you're abroad but according to their website here some of them offer e-mail advice. Might be worth a try.
Good luck

That's so sad Rhubarb and good luck with whatever you decide you can do.

I hear what you are saying about she can't let go of him and his illness, she wants him to be ill almost.
It's how I feel about my sister and her OCD, she can't let go, almost doesn't wqant to, she's scared to be without it, doesn't know who she is without OCD, it's so big, so much a part of her, how and where does she start to try to slice away at it. But that's her and her own life, your mum is damaging someone else.

i hope it all has a happy ending for everyone involved.

rhubarb, this must be really eating away at you.

At least you will be back home soon for a while, to talk to your brother and other siblings.

Before then, can you arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible?

First off, speak to the other family, see how this was from their perspective. Do you have a way of contacting them? Just say you are coming home for christmas, and want to talk to your brother about his experiences so wanted to hear all sides. How serious was the quarrel between their son tand your brother? is their son still in the shared house? do they think it was working out for both men? Try to elicit their feelings about your mother and what she has done. Also, is there still a space for your brother if he decided he wanted to move back? You could mention that your mother is not getting any younger and you want to ease her burden, and you are not entirely sure she is making the right long term decisions.....This IMO is a perfecly reasonable stance to take, as a concerned daughter.

Also, phone his social worker, as suggested, and anyone else who you can think of for a quiet off the record discussion away from your mother. You never know, someone else might have concerns about your mother, but has not said anything to her face and has assumed all her children feel she is a saint, too. If you make it clear you want an honest opinion, you never know what allies you will find.

I don't know where this will lead to, but the more you know the better.

Take care - horrible position to be in.

Spoke to my sister on the phone last night. She was meant to be leaving him to settle in the house, but she never left him alone to get on with things. He had an argument with the other guy about the remote control (!), my brother is like a little child, so of course when he had this argument he said he wanted to go home, so mum took him out. No encouragement to stick it out, no mediation between the two of them, she took the first excuse to pull him out. The other boy is still there. My sister is going to speak to the carers that looked after them. She also warned SS that this might happen, so now she's going to follow that up, asking why they didn't have measures put in place after her warning to prevent this.

My mum is very disturbed. She controls my elder brother's life, she uses his house as her own, she exerts influence over daughters, setting them against him. He was ill for a very long time with Post Traumatic Stress after serving in Northern Ireland, whilst he was ill she just took over. Now he and his wife cannot even go on holiday without mum following. She never does anything useful, like babysitting, but if he tells his teenage daughters they cannot do something, she will tell them the opposite. She makes plans for them without telling him, in short she takes away his parental responsibilities right from under his nose. But he's become a lot stronger during the past year and this is partly what their rift is, because he is now standing up to her and trying to regain control of his life.

As for me, her husband was touching my niece (my brother's daughter) and her friend inappropriately when they all came here for a holiday, he was slapping their bottoms, patting their thighs, sliding his hand up and down their backs, that type of thing. I said something and since then there has been a rift between mum and me. She thinks I am out to cause trouble. There is past history, she is not a very good mum. Her husband mentally abused me as a child and the scars run deep.

She is also controlling my elder sister's life to such an extent that my elder sister has become just like her. There are 3 of us fighting this, my eldest brother, my other sister and me. I have one other brother who has distanced himself from everyone, he refuses to get involved in anything.

Anyway, we are now talking about having a word with Social Services and possibly getting her assessed by a psychologist.

OMG....she's a peice of work, isn't she?!?!?!

Sorry Rhurbarb I have no advice but I hope the solution is found quickly for you and your brother.

Blimey Rhubabrb, she really is a messed up woman isn't she. Sorry you've got all this on your plate.
TC x

Hi Rhubarb,

Your situation sounds incredibly similar to my parents own situation. My aunt has SN and has lived with my Grandma all her life. My Grandparents were abusive to my father and my Aunt when they were young and although there is no excuse I believe it was more ignorance and a generational problem than wilful neglect.

My Grandma thrives on having her adult SN daughter live with her. She plays upon the God fearing martyr image, demanding sympathy for how she has 'sacrificed' her life to look after my Aunt. She seems kind, caring and sympathetic, but in truth is manipulative, clever and very needy. In reality, we know that she is preventing her daughter from achieving anything near her potential.

We now find ourselves in the situation that you have been in. My Aunt (at last!) has been offered a home with 3 other adults with SN, with carers. My Grandma has put on her best theatrical routine in front of social services- tears, feigned concern, anything to throw a spanner in the works. She is determined to try and prevent this going ahead.

Luckily, through liaising with social services my parents have achieved a bit of a breakthrough. Although my Grandma has legal custody of my Aunt, my parents have the final say over everything that happens to her. Her bank accounts, passport, health records etc etc are all controlled by my parents and anything happening to my Aunt must be pre-approved by them and their word is final. This arose because social services recognised that my Grandma was incapable of acting in my Aunt's best interests. My parents could not have managed full custody of my Aunt, they both work full time, but through perseverance have managed to orchestrate a situation where they are putting my Aunt's needs first. Of course my Grandma phones at least five times a day to sarcastically ask my parents if it's alright for my Aunt to have a shower. But go and ask her if she's happy with the situation and she'll tell you "my son and daughter in law have really taken the pressure off. At my time of life it's such a relief to have my family all pulling together." Rubbish. She resents losing the control over her daughter, but it's the best thing all round, even with her complaining.

HTH

Kleg

HI Kleggie, thanks so much for your message! You have made me feel tons better! I spoke to a Social Worker today and we can get mum assessed by a psychologist to find out if she is capable of caring for him. To have the power your parents have got would be fantastic for us! They can appoint an Advocat for my brother who would act as his voice, they would attend all the relevant meetings and would act in an unbiased way to make sure that his needs were being met.
I've emailed both my sister and my brother and we will all meet when I return at Christmas. I don't know how we will manage it, but we need to get my brother into these types of accommodation so that he can start to reclaim his independance.

At the moment he is so reliant on her that if anything should happen to her, he will fall apart, which is what she wants. She's actually told me that God would ensure that he dies before she does as there is no-one else who can look after him like she does. Obviously that is not going to happen. We need to act now whilst he is still young enough to be able to change and grow.