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Original poster

Do working mothers need to have hats taken off to them?

82 replies

binkie · 18/10/2005 10:23

I went last night to the Fawcett Society's Inspiring Women event.

Biggest impression was of the vast range of women's differing concerns, of course; but one thing struck me (& the long-term MNer I went with): the panel included only one woman (Meera Syal) with children, and there was a point where with holy hush the other, childless, women said they took their hats off to mothers who work (you know what I mean, paid jobs, outside or from home, that mean you can't do all your own fulltime child-rearing) and that they Couldn't Have Done It Themselves.

Now that bothered me. My life is definitely a bit complicated, with a fulltime job, a 6yo and a nearly-5yo, but it isn't impossible, it has masses of ups and downs but, you know, it's not always even that tough. Obviously it is a matter of personal circumstances - but I was pretty surprised by the air of melodrama.

What do y'all think?

OP posts:
PeachyClairPumpkinPie · 18/10/2005 11:10

I used to work when I just had ds1 and ds2. It was part time, but when you added in commuting it was full time really. I ahd to catch the bus at 7.15 am every morning, with them both ready. I have no idea how I ever managed it, and I am more than happy to take my hat off to ANYBODY that manages it.

Springchicken · 18/10/2005 11:13

Wouldn't say they needed hats taken off to them from anyone outside of their family but I know in my circumstances a little appreciation from my DP once in a while wouldn't go a miss.

Everyone is different. I know some SAHM's who say they couldnt possibly go to work and I know others who work and say they couldn't possibly stay at home.

bossykate · 18/10/2005 11:14
bundle · 18/10/2005 11:15

parp

Gobbledispook · 18/10/2005 11:16

Well done bundle!

parpety, parp, parp!! (even if I did get drawn in earlier )

bossykate · 18/10/2005 11:18

well one good thing - i hadn't heard of the fawcett society before and will take an interest in future.

Original poster
binkie · 18/10/2005 11:22

No it's not a parp (she says defensively). If an outfit like the Fawcett Society is perpetuating Allison Pearson-type stereotypes then I think that is newsworthy & needs dealing with. So there.

OP posts:
handlemecarefully · 18/10/2005 11:24

remind me what parp means? I don't mumsnet enough these days to keep up with mn terminology and shorthand...

Original poster
binkie · 18/10/2005 11:24

It means oh gawd, not again.

OP posts:
handlemecarefully · 18/10/2005 11:25

Thanks...

but that accounts for 95% of threads on mn doesn't it!

handlemecarefully · 18/10/2005 11:26

and agree that you've got a different slant on it on this thread

bundle · 18/10/2005 11:27

binkie, i was parping myself

hmc, a parp (or honk, whatever) is the self-censoring online mn noise whenever you stray onto a thread which you know you shouldn't have but you just can't help yourself...aaaghghghghhgghghgh

(for me: bf threads, sahm/wohm etc)

Gobbledispook · 18/10/2005 11:28

Me too - I got drawn in so gave myself a parp to remind myself not to get into a barney!

aloha · 18/10/2005 11:29

I would find it unbelievably difficult, emotionally and practically to have two children and go to work every day. I was late almost every single day when I didn't have kids and found organising myself very, very stressful. Now I find the stress of getting both out to a local appointment at 10.30am when I can wear my jeans and put on a smear of lipstick in the car is almost overwhelming. I often feel quite tearful. I can see exactly what they mean. And they were trying to be nice IMO. I really don't think its anything to be insulted or aggrieved by.
And re the public platform, well, to inspire people in general you have to be known about. It's in the job description.

Original poster
binkie · 18/10/2005 11:30

Oh all right, I was over-defensive there, wasn't I? But I do really want your views (and my threads never seem to turn into barneys 'cos they're always a bit blue-stockingy).

OP posts:
Blu · 18/10/2005 11:47

I think it is important to acknowledge the challenges that mothers face in comparison to non-mothers (and men) in achieving 'inspirational' status in the public eye, but in a 'political' way that looks at working/domestic/financial considerations, rather than focussing on individuals in a potentially patronising manner.

Original poster
binkie · 18/10/2005 11:50

aloha, I shouldn't think anyone felt insulted or aggrieved ... just surprised; and for me concerned, as a matter of principle, that that atmosphere could contribute to limitations on what younger women might think their choices can be.

blu, I think I don't follow. Do you mean that by having a panel of for a better word celebrities the event was necessarily going to be a bit superficial?

OP posts:
Beetroot · 18/10/2005 11:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
binkie · 18/10/2005 11:51

for want of a better word

OP posts:
aloha · 18/10/2005 11:53

But nobody's interested unless you do feature individuals. We are all interested in each other.

mandrake · 18/10/2005 11:56

Usually the Fawcett society is pretty good on the political, financial, employment implications. that's the sort of thing it campaigns on. Gender pay gap etc.

were the panelists not members of the Fawcett society then, but invited guests? who perhaps don't quite share the Fawcett society's political approach?

just wondering.

Blu · 18/10/2005 11:57

Binkie Mmm, no, and anyway I think Meera Syals writing and documentary achievements are greater than 'cleb', anyway.

I just meant that I think there is a case for recognising that mothers have a lot more on their plate, but to look at it strategically, rather than adding 'oooh, and she's a Mum too' with either the 'loon' subtext, or the potential 'didn't she do well' pat on the head that CAN sound patronising. So look at the policies which cause women pressure, rather than the struggle of an individual woman.

Have confused myself, now!

mandrake · 18/10/2005 11:59

quite right Blu

perhaps Mumsnet should put up a panel at the Fawcett society....

aloha · 18/10/2005 12:00

It's not always 'policies' that cause pressure though. It just IS harder to have to organise several people to get out of the door - esp when some of them are very small and irrational. I have had people get annoyed with me when I said that I couldn't cope doing what they do, and I know they look for a subtext, but I simply mean what I say. If I had to go to work every day on pain of death, I would do it, but I would do it badly and miserably and be late, panicky, exhausted and stressed.
And really that has nothing to do with policies or politics.

Bugsy2 · 18/10/2005 12:04

binkie, I'm going off to look up about the Fawcett Society, as I'd never heard of them.
A shame that there was only one female panel member with children.
Sometimes, I find the "oh, I couldn't do that" comment really grating. As a single mummy of two, with no relatives nearby, paid to work 3 days a week and being a fairly lazy cow too, I know that it is definitely do-able. It is not rocket science or miracle working - it just requires organisation and faith in your child carers.