My comments were not aimed at Vaunda by the way - merely the whole thread!!! (Which I read out of some kind of voyeurism) Parenting is, imo, the hardest job I have ever had to do, and though I personally spend the majority of my time and efforts (when I'm not mnetting ) in trying to be a good parent, the fact that my kids are nowhere near perfect, illustrates to me how blooming hard and frustrating it is to get it 'right'! So I will not be casting any stones. Sometimes I read stuff which makes me feel 'superior' and sometimes I read stuff which makes me wish I could go back 8 years and start all over again. But that's what i love about mumsnet. We all do whatever we need to do to make our and our families' lives the best we can. Er, sorry if I sound like an insufferable prig Best wishes to all mums x