Would anyone be interested in calmly discussing this Times articles with me please?

[Sycamoretree]

Article from Times 2 today.

here

Have read with interest as DH is currently SAHD due to redunancy over a year ago, so my youngest, (DS) has only been cared for at home with a parent. He is 20 months old.

My DD is at pre-school and starts reception in Sept. She had a nanny for the first couple of years until DH got made redundant.

DH is trying hard to get back into full time work and nursery was/is something we are considering. We certainly could no longer afford a nanny for one on one childcare.

I'm particularly interested in anyone who can confidently refute this quote from Steve Biddulph:

"quality nursery care for young children doesn't exist. It is a fantasy of the glossy magazines."

On the one hand I am furious that such an article gets printed as so many of us are between a rock and hard place when it comes to just surviving, and nurseries are often the only solution.

On the other hand, if any of this is actually true, then as a society, we need to start having this debate/conversation - surely?

you have to start from somewhere when you are 20. and you have to do your placement

Motherducky, I remember your babyroom post as being fair and credible. I certainly did not have you in mind.

As a nursery worker, you must surely have pride in what you do. Maybe it is all a show for foolish parents, but did I imagine the spark of affection that a carer had for my ds when she describes some silly thing he did that day?

What sort of person who loves children would work in a place where they thought children were being shortchanged? I just cannot get my head around it.

Maybe I should work in an abortion clinic.

Laquitar, I hace been a NNEB for 24 years and I agree with you, wouldn't send a baby to nursery, actually I would only send a child aged 3 or over for a few hours, thats enough for them at that age

all day 8-6 in a nursery must be a long long day for little kids, I don't know the answer but surely 9-10 hours in nursey isn't it?

agree ssd. my son goes, but he is 3.

I think 8-6 is a long day, whether at home, or in a nursery or in school.

This idea that nurseries are stressful and noisy is probably true for some children. But for others, noisy and busy is great fun and they get attention from other children and carers, rather than a parent who is not on her own with more than one child and distracted by housework, phone calls and errands.

If a child enjoys nursery, why should it matter they are in there from 8-6. You would never say that about a child who is with his/her parent from 8-6 and longer, however uninteresting that might be.

blueshoes, your post says it all, not all nursery workers "love children", its a job to most of them, not a something they adore doing, much like working in an office or at a school. I don't expect my ds's teachers to love children, why would nursery workers earning £6 an hour love all the children in their care? Its purely a job.

just to say working is all about avaricious needs for money and consumer goods is wrong

pior to pg i was solvent,had mortgage.financially independent.worked ft career i enjoyed i shouldn't have to give that up because i had a baby.

i work because i want to
i was raised to be financially independent.
i value my career and gain affirmation from doing it. it makes me feel competent and i enjoy it

i don't need to be a mummy martyr.
no holidays
enforced frugality
blah blah

nah i will pass thanks

possibly been said already...but if you look at scandinavian countries which use a lot of nursery care for very young children and how well they do in those countries , I kinda think it disproves the point Biddulph (sp?) is making...

is not on her own

because the mums or dads at home with their kids 8-6 usually love them as much as they might be driven round the bend sometimes!

to mums and dads looking after their kids at home isn't just a job, but to childcare providers it is

ssd, quite. On mn, you get the odd creature which is the nursery worker that apparently loves children but nevertheless works in a bad nursery until they have children and then comes on mn to say how they would never send their child to nursery. Guess it was just a job for them then?

also, I think too many parents believe their child enjoys nursery as it makes the parent feel less guilty for sending them all day

oh gosh yes ssd, nursery false consciousness !

Some people do their jobs very well indeed, nursery workers included, particularly where they enjoy being around children. Affection, not love, will do very nicely.

have you ever gone into a nursery at 4 ish to collect a child? most of them run up to the parent collecting a child, looking desperate to get home. I think its heart breaking.

blueshoes, its your choice to believe if childcare workers love children or not, but if you do I guess then that all nurses love sick people and all office workers love paperwork? or is it only people working with kids that must do it as they just love them all?

ssd, once again, that well worn argument that parents of nursery children are deluding themselves. But of course I could not possibly know how my child feels about their nursery. I could not possibly care enough to collect them at odd times and peep into my child's room to see how they are before they see me. Actually, they could not possibly tell me themselves now they are older.

Now that my dd is at school and no longer in nursery, I would never dream of asking her how her day at school was. Because I have to keep myself in denial.

denial..... you're not wrong

ssd, do you have older children are school and do you collect them? You never see children running up to great their parents with great grins at the school gate? Do yours?

Perhaps they are traumatised by their day in school.

You're spot on, ssd - I really believe that people choosing a career in childcare/nursing, whatever, do it with the best intentions in the world initially... but the reality of the actual work - whatever it might be - is often far removed from the pre-employment fantasy.

ssd, I wonder whether you have a job. Would you hold a job you hate doing?

ssd, denial is not that far away from prejudice.

blueshoes, we should just agree to disagree I think!

I don't know the answer, so many parents need to work for money/sanity/career progression etc., but I just don't think long days in privately run nurseries where profits are sooooo important is the answer for the majority of kids

Those with older children, ask your child if they remember nursery.
Mine do, they went to a Leapfrog chain of nurseries when we moved to a new area and both of the children who were 2 and 4 at the time look distressed when I mention that nursery.
So if they know what a bad experience is then everybody using a nursery should be confident that their child will report how happy they are right ?

I should have said my kids were only in the leapfrog nursery for 7 weeks until I got the measure of the place but that was all it took to stay in their memory for 5 years

hmm...obviously a sign of me being a cap mum, but especially ms used to cry because he wanted to stay at nursery....even if he did go a full day for whatever reason....
but I realise we were really lucky with the nursery....