Would anyone be interested in calmly discussing this Times articles with me please?

[Sycamoretree]

Article from Times 2 today.

here

Have read with interest as DH is currently SAHD due to redunancy over a year ago, so my youngest, (DS) has only been cared for at home with a parent. He is 20 months old.

My DD is at pre-school and starts reception in Sept. She had a nanny for the first couple of years until DH got made redundant.

DH is trying hard to get back into full time work and nursery was/is something we are considering. We certainly could no longer afford a nanny for one on one childcare.

I'm particularly interested in anyone who can confidently refute this quote from Steve Biddulph:

"quality nursery care for young children doesn't exist. It is a fantasy of the glossy magazines."

On the one hand I am furious that such an article gets printed as so many of us are between a rock and hard place when it comes to just surviving, and nurseries are often the only solution.

On the other hand, if any of this is actually true, then as a society, we need to start having this debate/conversation - surely?

Hello, I am a nursery owner and recently became a mother for the first time.

My baby attends my nursery 3 days a week.

I feel guilty that she's not with me, but like everyone else, I have to work in order to pay the bills and of course it is my own businesss which I have great pride in as it offers wonderful care for children. I have always taken a very high standard approach as I am a natural high achiever and want to be the best at everything. I believe children should be looked after by caring intelligent people. My baby room only takes 9 x babies, it is not always full so usually the ratio is 1:2. I give my staff training regularly by keeping up to date with current research.

I personally would not put my baby in full time care as I wish to look after her myself, however some people have to, there are good nurseries out there but they are in my opinion few and far between. You need to research and look at and get a good feeling. Dont look at Ofsted reports they are not worth the paper they are written on!

I think each family is different and must do what is best for their family.

My opionions and standards on childcare have not changed since I gave birth, as I have always had very high standards in the care of babies and young children.

Biddulph is a psychologist so beyond selling books ethically he's not really allowed an agenda as such i wouldn't have thought.

I am a SAHM and to be honest, I can see that having me around 5 days a week is not necessarily a good thing for DD lol! My son went to nursery 1 day a week from 12 months and loved it. I agree with the poster who said 2 part time parents and some nursery time is ideal from 12 months onward

I find it very hard to remain motivated to provide the correct level of stimulation for DD 7 days a week. Nurseries, because they cater for larger numbers than just 1 or 2 will get out the messy stuff on a regular basis when you may be loathe to do so at home. This is just one benefit I can think of off the top of my head.

His agenda is selling books and more books.

Even tho' DS only went 1 day a week he still loved his nursery carers alot.

I think Biddulph's agenda is just another push to the nuclearization (does this word exist?) of families. Because what subsidized nurseries should be, imho, is a collective response to individual needs.

Yes, Bella, I agree that there might be preferable means of childcare for little ones. However, I'm one of those people who could coo after a chubby 6 months old never met before, so, there might be lots of nursery keyworkers who form an affectionate relationship with the little ones they look after. I wonder if I'm too naive. Surely people who decide to work in a nursery should like children?

I am sure key workers get fed up sometimes, but so do SAHMs!

SAHMS are supposed to 'like' children too! lol

I agree with BA regarding socialisation - in my experience its only in reception that DS1 has formed what i'd term proper friendships.

Of course even though i'm a sahm he socialised with other children but it was more playing alongside rather than with until he was about 4.

Good quality childcare is expensive and hard to find but it is out there - i've met some truly lovely nannies/childminders at toddlers/the school gate etc.

I do sometimes wonder though at some parents who really begrudge paying a decent amount for childcare - surely its important and so it is going to cost quite a lot. I know one 'friend' whose getting rid of her lovely nanny and instead going to get her cleaner to do a little childminding as well as the housework. And this is someone who earns a lot of money but begrudges every penny she spends on her nanny.

DS1 went to nursery one day a week when he was 5months - 12 months because i was struggling. His keyworker was fab and he adored her and was always in her arms but i did notice that not all the babies were so lucky and many would be left on their own. I guess like everyone they had their favourites.

I'm not quite sure when my older children began to play with other children but it was younger than 3y. I know my youngest has always played games etc with others from around 18m. She would actively seek out someone to play with. She is also good at amusing herself if on her own. She has never been to nursery or school. But she does have the advantage of several siblings and their friends.

I always believe juule

perhaps Biddulph was sent to a nursery when he was 1 and has felt wounded his whole life and desperate to right the wrongs he has suffered

I never meet RL people who criticise other people's (women's) choices. I've had comments but never snide ones. We may talk about people we don't know like this but I really have never heard people talk about friends this way (criticising how they live their lives!).

Juuule, that sounds right. Children do benefit from and seek out social interaction with other children well before 3 years' old, even if that is short of the stage where they are capable of having a best friend. But that is not to say that such interaction cannot be provided at home with siblings or hanging out with other children.

Gee, thanks Pointydog

Totally agree, Blueshoes. That's why I said that my youngest had never been to nursery or school. All her socialising has been from a home base.

I have not read the whole thread but as someone who works in a day nursery, I do feel myself really lucky that i never had to put my childen in one.

And I feel really sorry for the children that I care for.

DTS went to nursery from age of 7 months for 3 days a week. Their key worker is now their babysitter.

The nursery they attended was fabulous and they loved it. They are at school now and their teachers say that they are one of the most polite, friendly and socially adjusted children in their class.

The nursery has an 18 month waiting list due to word of mouth. Like other forms of childcare and parents, there are good nurseries, bad nurseries and indifferent nurseries.

That's quite a statement purple - care to elaborate ?

purepurple, I too feel very sorry for the children you care for. You cannot/won't make a difference to their care? Why take the job.

I cannot speak highly enough for the ladies who work at my dcs' nursery.

Why wouldn't purepurple be able to make a difference? Perhaps that's the reason that she took the job - to make a difference.

Perhaps purepurple took the job to make a difference. But she does not seem to be succeeding if she still feels sorry for the children she cares for. Those children should be damn lucky to have her, but they are not .

Those children are very lucky to have her.

She cares.

Why don't people want to listen to nursery workers.

Talk about lalala covering your ears.

It is still puzzling me that no-one else thinks it odd that teh article is highly concerned with the needs of boys, who have to be carefully and expertly mummied until at least 3, while presumably you can stick a girl in a box at 3 months with a fruit shoot and that will be fine...

I am waiting for purepurple to explain how she makes a difference.