Just recieved a call from ds new nursery which has reallly upset me

[Knakard]

Bit of background, ds is 12 months and has just started a new nusery this week he goes 2 days.

He has been going to nusery for about 3 months in a lovely little local one which we put him in as an interim thing as hte waiting list for the one we really wanted was massive.

He has always got on well at nursery and settled in really quickly, the only issue there has ever been is that he does bite from time to time when he is teething. He used to do it at home occasionally and we always said no and ignore him for a moment or two and he got alot better and hasnt bitten at home for a good few months.

They also got the hang at his nursery of knowing when he was about to bite and saying no which stopped him. Now we told the new urery all of this before he started and they were quite relaxed about it and said yeah we get biters all the time etc. quite normal at that age.

When i picked him up after his 2nd day yesterday the staff told me they had had a problem with him biting and that he had done it a few times, they said it was good that he understood no and that he always stopped if they managed to catch him before he did it. talked to they about how we managed it at home and said he hadnt done it for a long time maybe he was a little over whelmed with a new nursery with lots more in his group and he is the youngest by about 2/3months so maybe it was all a bit much. They agree with all of this and said they would just keep a closer eye on him.

Anyway this morning i have had a call from his key worker very upset. She said the little girl he bit (they never told us yesterday it was a child)s mother was fuming! She was on the phone to this woman at home all evening with the woman just going nuts, saying things like "well my children are brought up to share" and "we dont need children like that a this nursery" (quite well to do area). She has basically said she will not have her child in at the same time as my little boy. The Nurse said she explained to her this put everyone in a very difficult postition and said she tried to explain to this woman she was going a little OTT.

So i am going in for a chat with keyworker on Monday but what do i do? A child of 12 months dosent bite maliciously FFS! And this silly womans specific comments have really bloody riled me! i Can understand her being upset but what does she expect us to do!!!

Thanks for reading

Do you work? Say that it's too short notice to change your plans and they need to give you at least a month (I'm sure that is what they'd expect from you if you wanted to change days?)

Ask them what they have done with biters in the past (I'm sure your DS isn't the first and won't be the last)

Also reiterate (sp?) The fact that you warned them that he was a biter, and gave them an 'action plan' that works at home, so why should he be 'punished'.

If your feeling strong, say that your son hasn't done anything wrong, so if Mrs. PFB doesn't like it, she can move her daughter!

If it doesn't go your way, put him back in the other nursery!

I am off to work now but thank you for all your comments. I will check again later.

I am absolutely shocked at the way the nursery has dealt with this.

It is the responsibility of the nursery and its staff to care for all of the children in their care - including your ds's.

You have explained to them clearly that ds is a biter and told them ways of dealing with it - though to be honest they should have their own ideas on this.

It is common practice in this kind of situation to have a staff member (Preferably DS's keyworker - though obviously this isn't always possible) to shadow him during the day and intervene where necessary. Do you know what their behavioural policy is like? (Am not saying he has behavioural issues by the way lots of children are biters - the nursery staff should have clear ideas and training on how to deal with this)

To be honest I think the main problem here is how the nursery have reacted to the situation.

I have been working in nurseries for the past 18 years and have been a nursery owner/manager for the past 11. I understand how difficult it is to deal with parents who obviously are upset that their child has been hurt BUT the nursery manager/senior staff should know how to deal calmly and professionaly with all involved.

I would have expected my staff to (politely) apologise profusely for this happening whilst the child was in our care and assure the parent that we would be closely monitoring the situation and doing all we can to make sure this never happens again - end of.

The nursery staff should not have got involved in any further discussion with the parents regarding your son and when he will be at nursery and they should have a clear confidentiality policy (Signed by all staff) preventing them from doing so.

It is extremely unproffesional of ds's keyworker to ring you and tell you what the other mum has been saying (again confidentiality issues). Is this keyworker a senior member of staff - If not I would highly recommend that you speak to one of them asap and ask them to sort out the situation, explaining to them in detail how your keyworker has been dealing with it.

Finally somebody needs to make it clear to the other parent that while they understand she is upset about the incident there is no way that they can stop your child from attending because of this.

If she feels that is unreasonable and does not want her DD there with your son then that is her problem, and then up to her to sort it out and arrange alternative care.

If they ask you not to bring him you might want to bring up "equal opportunities" and "discrimination"

(I take it you have a signed contract with them - check what this says about notice periods and asking a child to leave).

I do not understand why the nursery feel you need to go and have a chat with them about the whole thing - you have already spoke to them about his biting - the rest is their responsibilty but it may be worth asking them what think they can do to help him through this.

I have taken my "nursery hat" off now and will go back to being a mum.

My eldest ds was a biter and I know exactly how embarassing it can be when they are going through this phase. You are doing exactly the right thing though by teaching him this is wrong and moving him away from the situation - there is nothing more that you can do.

He is not being naughty at all - He is far too young to understand. Unfotunatley there are many reasons why young children bite and teething is just one of them.

The other parent is being completely OTT about this and I hope that in time she realises this.

I would go into the meeting fully prepared, tell them that you're unhappy with the way they've approached the situation, and you feel it was very unprofessional that they disclosed what the other parent said, and breached confidentiality. I would also ask what was said to the other parent, how was it approached etc, as it is their fault for not keeping an eye on him. ask to see their behaviour management policy, then pick it to pieces regarding what happened. They should have in their policy what they will do with the child who bites and was bitten, and how they will manage the behaviour in the future if it continues, eg. your child may have 1:1 with an adult at all times (sounds worse than it is, they'll just be playing with him and if anything your son will get more attention than before) if they say this isn't possible then tell them they're wrong. They should be meeting your son's needs as well as the other child's needs.
DON'T give in regarding the sessions they want your child to do, if your son carries on biting they need to contact an outside agency.

I'm really sorry this sounds like I'm just addressing the biting, but they should not be hinting for you to not take your child to nursery, and they should be playing down the incidents as much as possible with the other parent. It needs to be explained to her that 1yr olds don't know not to bite, and they need to give him chance to settle in properly. If the mum was really as bad as your sons keyworker was saying, she needs to show her the behaviour management policy and say to her 'look, this is what we're doing to manage the behaviour, we need to try these techniques for x weeks, if this does not work then we will try Y technique and then Z technique. We're sorry your daughter has been bitten, it is our fault for not properly supervising when we knew there was a risk of biting'

X posted!

Thanks nicocacola and everyone for you helpful comments. Im so nervous about tomorrow! Think im prepared for it though after all the advise from you lovely mumsnetters. I will update tommorrow after i have been.

Good luck tomorrow

I just want to wish you luck. I can't believe what nonsense they are putting you through and I am utterly shocked and horrified at the nursery and the other mother. Your lovely ds is only one fgs. I really really find this story unbelievable and I wonder if you could actually report the nursery to ofsted for their handling of the matter. Does the nursery really lack the experience and ability to deal with a very common and simple problem. I am seriously shocked and I send big hugs to your little boy. Of course, of course of course he is not being naughty but you know that because you sound like a very sensible mum.

How did you get on?

Am shocked at the nursery (not so much the mother tbh - you will always get the occasional daft cow).
hope you find they react a bit more sensibily when you go in and see them.Very unprofessional

Just wondered how it went?

Message withdrawn

I'm so shocked at the nursery's unprofessionalism! The lovely local nursery he was already at sounds nicer tbh.

Hi guys sorry it took so long to update only just got back from work.

Well it was "interesting" turns out who i thought was they key worker on the phone was in fact the nursery owner (ive got theyre names muddled up !

Basically the meeting was really to ask if we could change sessions for a few week just till this other child moves up to the next room in a month or so. I sttod my ground and said absolutley not we have child care on certain days for a reason.

She said she really didnt know what to do as the other mother is saying she will remove her child and report them to ofsted for allowing "assault!!!!" on their premisis!!!

I was very sympathetic as the owner was clearly quite shaken and upset her self (she is more lovely lady who started a nursery that was really popular than a bussiness woman) but made the point that if she choses to "side"(hate that term)with this woman then she will have to officially exclude Reed and we will not take that lightly. Also pointed out that she is then very much setting a president for her self as are they going to exclude every child who hurts hers (she said her staff are terrified this will happen again) and also i expect that from now on every child who bite will also be excluded. perhaps leaving her with a very empty tots room.

She told me a few more bits. The father of this child, who i thought might have been slightly less deranged, id "devestated". The woman is also asking that her number be passed to me so i can call her and apologise. Dh piped up very quickly at this point that that was not a good idea as an apology is not what she would be getting.

Found out a bit more about the bite, No blood, no skin broken and no treatment required, however still a small mark there the next day.

It has been left that she is going to call the woman today and ask if she will change her sessions or have her child moved up rooms early (unlikly me thinks) and she will call me tonight after 8 to tell me the out come so waitd with baited breath!

Sorry such a long post. And big thanks to you all for your support and advice.

what on earth is this nursery manager/owner thinking of to be telling you all this stuff? you don't need to know all this 'devastated' nonsense. obv other family completely mad. are they v rich or influential in some way cos it sounds like manager is falling over herself to keep them happy

I'd be looking for a new nursery. that one sounds completely unprofessional

Hi Knakard
I cannot believe the mother is behaving like this. As everyone has said, most children are bitten at some point (both mine have been) and it is just one of those things.

Also was wondering how much damage a 12 month old baby could do!

Well done for standing your ground. They cannot allow this woman to dictate who attends their nursery - why are they so keen to keep her happy? She is free to take her child out of nursery if she wishes

"The woman is also asking that her number be passed to me so i can call her and apologise"

Wtf? She should have put the other mother straight and should never have told you

This is very unprofessional.

Would you consider moving your ds back to the nursery he was at before?

am going to echo what the others have said, how they have dealt with it is crap.

My dd was a victim (about 18 mths), and yes it is upsetting, and at one point it was happening daily, which I wasn't happy about. Dh went mental and wanted a word with the parents - I had to explain to him that it was perfectly natural. But I did ask the staff to ensure that my DD was kept apart from the biter.

All went well for a bit, then she started to be biten again, I found out by accident who the child was. It was actually a friend?? of hers, I watched said friend trying to bite my dd at a toddler group, it was so quick and I was impressed with how quick DD was in removing her vulnerable body part. It was the reaction to not getting her own way (typical toddler stuff)

So the next time she got biten - I asked the nursery to supervise my DD and this friend, they were and still are drawn together, they were surprised that I knew and did what they could - probably worried that i would tell dh and he would go mental again (i have more experience of children).

Friend grew out of it, they do, DD had a phase of hitting, embarrassing - but she grew out of that.

I'm so glad you stood your ground, I can understand the other mum being upset, but children do these things and her child will probably hurt someone one day.

I can't believe with how the nursery have dealt with it - panic mode i suppose.

Sorry for waffleing

Im loathed to move him as with this exception it is a bloody wonderful nursery. The staff are out standind as ds loves it! Its on a little farm and the go and see the animals and do things like put the animals to bed and sing good night at tea time and the facilitie are all fab!
That be said if the escalates anymore thats what i will be doing.
I dont know why they are so keen to please her, think the woman just wants to keep everyone happy and i think she is worried out ofstead getting involved.

Oh, that does sound lovely. Have you asked the manager how she has dealt with biting in the past? This can't have been the first time.

Surely she should be confident that OFSTED will tell the mother it is totally normal and that all procedures were followed properly? If I were her I would have called OFSTED myself in front of the nutbag!

In fact, to head things off, why don't YOU call OFSTED. Not mentioning any names explain the situation and ask for some advice. If they tell you that they don't consider it a matter worthy of formal investigation then you can at least allay the fears of the nursery owner and help her grow some goolies!

ofsted won't see a 12mo biting as assault. if records were kept correctly, then she has nothing to worry about & it isn't your problem. in fact, you could tell her you don't want to hear any more about how she is failing to manage her own business. the manager should learn to run a business. it's hard for her, but it is HER job to sort this out. whilst it is a difficult situation, she is trying to make you responsible for something that happened when she was in charge.

oh my god.... if you send your child to a nursery with other children this May happen...no fault of the staff or your child.
These things happen...a child of 5 should know better but not of a year. The nursery reaction is way over the top...I am really shocked at their reaction...I would have said I am very sorry Mrs. X your child got bitten today. It can happen with children of this age. We will of course keep a close eye on child y but we cannot gaurentee this will not happen again.

I completely agree with everyone else. It is down to the nursery to deal with the other parents. And they should be doing it without involving you. I owuld tell the manager that you don't want to be part of the discussions between her and the other parent any more.