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Original poster

Is this an illegal exclusion? Nursery

396 replies

MumTeach88 · 28/10/2025 22:50

My 3.5 year old son was kicked out his nursery. We have been working closely with the nursery throughout and he has additional needs. We have a SEND support arrangement in place as well.

We were called in for a meeting and they informed me they don't feel they can meet his needs and that he isnt coping and is "impacting the other children". My hand was metaphorically twisted and I said "is this you saying I need to find another setting?" Long story short, yes, this was what they were doing. I agreed i would and they agreed they were happy to have him until I found one.

2 weeks later (him having only been back a day and a half as we were on holiday), they called me. They were beating around the busy and I said "so you're kicking him out?" They tried to say words around it and that it wasn't they were kicking him out, I asked "So he can come in next week then?" They said no. My husband then called them later and they confirmed they were terminating his place immediately.

I have documents with that they have done (or not as the case was) against the Support Plan. Their main issue is he was impulsive and where he has SAL issues, he can grab and hit. Now, I totally understand that's difficult, but having received rhe behaviour logs under an SAR and shared with someone working in another nursery, they feel that it is actually fairly standard 3 year old behaviour to snatch a toy or hit a child when you can't communicate. Obviously I understand this is an issue, and would never want to have my son hurt someone, but we were working with them (so we thought) on this with social stories, support plan etc. Among other things, they have issues that he cant sit still for 20mins, can't use cutlery proficiently and needs his suncream applied 1st due to allergies. They also take issue that he is not potty trained (despite us trying twice and working with them on this).

The long and short of it, is this a legal exclusion? As far as I am aware they have not submitted to LA. The nursery is independent but under OFSTED. Thanks

OP posts:
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Zenwalnut · 29/10/2025 15:06

MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 15:01

Absolutely. Which was all I was trying to get from this post in the 1st place lol

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Whether or not you had the law behind you?

But then when answered, you made it clear you think you should have the law behind you

hence the debate

stomachamelon · 29/10/2025 15:06

@MumTeach88 I think you have had a hard time on here and I am not going to repeat the same things on a loop.
Expect everything to be turned down the first time and appeal always.
My sons (this was some time ago) ‘employed’ specialist Sen legal experts to challenge refusals and get the right specialist places.
Make sure you are always one step ahead- start looking at specialist placement. Have an idea of what you want.
Knowldge is power :)

Sending you a hug. He is your child. I remember that feeling well when school/ placement makes you feel like your child is not wanted. We can argue all day about the why’s and where For’s but it’s hard. Make yourself an expert on the system. It’s a long haul. I have done it several times.

Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:08

MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 14:43

I am meeting them. Thanks though 👍.

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Look, I understand your frustration. But the question you asked was if this was illegal. It isn't. However imo, they have actually did you a favour. Because now you know that your child's behaviour is problematic and it's given you time try to get support before he starts compulsory schooling. So you can do that while meeting his needs at home as his mum (which you clearly do).

Zenwalnut · 29/10/2025 15:08

Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:08

Look, I understand your frustration. But the question you asked was if this was illegal. It isn't. However imo, they have actually did you a favour. Because now you know that your child's behaviour is problematic and it's given you time try to get support before he starts compulsory schooling. So you can do that while meeting his needs at home as his mum (which you clearly do).

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Nailed it

Original poster
MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 15:09

stomachamelon · 29/10/2025 15:06

@MumTeach88 I think you have had a hard time on here and I am not going to repeat the same things on a loop.
Expect everything to be turned down the first time and appeal always.
My sons (this was some time ago) ‘employed’ specialist Sen legal experts to challenge refusals and get the right specialist places.
Make sure you are always one step ahead- start looking at specialist placement. Have an idea of what you want.
Knowldge is power :)

Sending you a hug. He is your child. I remember that feeling well when school/ placement makes you feel like your child is not wanted. We can argue all day about the why’s and where For’s but it’s hard. Make yourself an expert on the system. It’s a long haul. I have done it several times.

Thank you - I appreciate the kindness. I don't normally post on socials like this as people just become unkind, but I was struggling to find the answer from mixed messages on the Internet as to what is and isnt legal. People who haven't been through this just dont get how hard it is. I don't blame them, I didn't get how hard it was before I was in this situation.

Thats good advice. I will get some visits lined up to specialist settings just in case. X

OP posts:
Original poster
MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 15:10

Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:08

Look, I understand your frustration. But the question you asked was if this was illegal. It isn't. However imo, they have actually did you a favour. Because now you know that your child's behaviour is problematic and it's given you time try to get support before he starts compulsory schooling. So you can do that while meeting his needs at home as his mum (which you clearly do).

Show quote history

Yes, that literally was what I wanted to know. I now know.

OP posts:
Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:13

drspouse · 29/10/2025 14:50

You don't legally have to go to a restaurant, buy food from a supermarket, or sing in a choir. However, if a restaurant, supermarket, or choir refused to allow you to use their services based on disability, this is discrimination.
Discrimination law applies to services that are sold, as well as things you have to do by law (like send your children to school).
If a music venue only allows people to stand, and if you want to sit down you are removed from the premises, this is disability discrimination.
If a supermarket says "Catholics only", this is religion discrimination.
And if a choir says "under 50s only" this is age discrimination.

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You are equating being responsible for your children to buying a loaf? But then , you don't seem to get the fact that there is no LAW saying you have to send your children to NURSERY. They are not schools!

Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:16

drspouse · 29/10/2025 14:54

This isn't true though - if they are complaining the child won't sit still for 20 minute stories, they can make the story session shorter. If they find he can't wait for lunch, they could serve him first. If the afternoon play session is hard for him but he's OK first thing in the morning, they could find him a quiet space with 1 other child and one adult for the afternoons, and then he can have a calm down during the part of the day that's hard due to tiredness.
If they have tried all the things that don't cost money (like these), and have put in some effort to discover other reasonable adjustments (moving soft furnishings around can make an area a lot quieter if it's a really noisy area, allowing him to play outside if the indoor game is too much for him, not necessarily with a 1:1) that's the time they can say "we've tried ABC and XYZ, we're asking the LEA SEN department for advice, can we work together on applying for an EHCP to carry him into school".

Show quote history

What is it you do?

VikaOlson · 29/10/2025 15:19

I do think the LA should be obliged to provide support in mainstream nurseries and specialist settings, but of course there is not enough money for it.

It's not fair to put the failings of the state onto individual childcare providers and claim they are discriminating though.

Unless you've worked in a nursery I'm not sure you realise how hard it is to meet children's needs at that ratio.
In a group of 24 three year olds with only 2-3 adults you might have:
A non-verbal child who can't follow instructions and has no sense of danger
A child who puts everything in their mouth and needs to be watched carefully
A child on a SaLT plan who is supposed to have daily/weekly sessions (SaLT have given a load of photocopies of activities for the key person to carry out until the next appointment in 6 months)
A child who bites/lashes out and is supposed to be shadowed constantly
Plus the other 20 three year olds at various stages of development, 10 in nappies, 5 unreliable in pants.

In September none of the children have a diagnosis of anything and only the SaLT child has any plan.

Staff are supposed to:
watch all the children and keep them safe
plan activities for all the children
carry out said activities
document development outcomes
change nappies
toilet train
provide food and snacks
do speech interventions
provide 2 or 3 children with 1:1 support at various points.

The SENCo is a staff member in another room who is supposed to get 1 afternoon a week to do paperwork but rarely does due to staff shortages. They didn't get a handover from the previous SENCo who left abruptly.

Parents are unhappy their child fell over and no one saw
Parents are unhappy their child has been bitten twice in the last week by the same kid who management said was 'being shadowed'
Parents are unhappy their child is toilet trained at home but keeps having accidents
Parents are unhappy their child isn't getting the daily speech therapy activities they're supposed to
Parents are unhappy their child's support plan hasn't been updated

The SENCo has asked the LA about inclusion funding. They're told they need to do 3 terms of putting in support and evaluating before they will consider funding.
There's no inclusion officer currently covering that area as the last one quit and the LA have a recruitment freeze.
Finally after jumping through all the hoops inclusion funding is given to one of the children in the summer term. It's £300. The nursery can't recruit a 1:1 staff member anyway.

cestlavielife · 29/10/2025 15:20

Remember that specialist settings will definitely work with child and if they develop "too much" they will work to transition towards mainstream if your child develops in a way that he can move on from say specialist nursery. Some kids do mature communication wise ...get the communication developed and hitting stops becaise they can ask in a different way.
Specialist can deal with and work on behaviour

Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:22

Zenwalnut · 29/10/2025 15:08

Nailed it

Show quote history

Thank you!

Original poster
MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 15:22

VikaOlson · 29/10/2025 15:19

I do think the LA should be obliged to provide support in mainstream nurseries and specialist settings, but of course there is not enough money for it.

It's not fair to put the failings of the state onto individual childcare providers and claim they are discriminating though.

Unless you've worked in a nursery I'm not sure you realise how hard it is to meet children's needs at that ratio.
In a group of 24 three year olds with only 2-3 adults you might have:
A non-verbal child who can't follow instructions and has no sense of danger
A child who puts everything in their mouth and needs to be watched carefully
A child on a SaLT plan who is supposed to have daily/weekly sessions (SaLT have given a load of photocopies of activities for the key person to carry out until the next appointment in 6 months)
A child who bites/lashes out and is supposed to be shadowed constantly
Plus the other 20 three year olds at various stages of development, 10 in nappies, 5 unreliable in pants.

In September none of the children have a diagnosis of anything and only the SaLT child has any plan.

Staff are supposed to:
watch all the children and keep them safe
plan activities for all the children
carry out said activities
document development outcomes
change nappies
toilet train
provide food and snacks
do speech interventions
provide 2 or 3 children with 1:1 support at various points.

The SENCo is a staff member in another room who is supposed to get 1 afternoon a week to do paperwork but rarely does due to staff shortages. They didn't get a handover from the previous SENCo who left abruptly.

Parents are unhappy their child fell over and no one saw
Parents are unhappy their child has been bitten twice in the last week by the same kid who management said was 'being shadowed'
Parents are unhappy their child is toilet trained at home but keeps having accidents
Parents are unhappy their child isn't getting the daily speech therapy activities they're supposed to
Parents are unhappy their child's support plan hasn't been updated

The SENCo has asked the LA about inclusion funding. They're told they need to do 3 terms of putting in support and evaluating before they will consider funding.
There's no inclusion officer currently covering that area as the last one quit and the LA have a recruitment freeze.
Finally after jumping through all the hoops inclusion funding is given to one of the children in the summer term. It's £300. The nursery can't recruit a 1:1 staff member anyway.

I think that is a very fair point and it does blow my mind that they don't support yet are banging on about early support. Maybe the delayed document will make changes next year... suppose just have to hope

OP posts:
drspouse · 29/10/2025 15:24

Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 15:13

You are equating being responsible for your children to buying a loaf? But then , you don't seem to get the fact that there is no LAW saying you have to send your children to NURSERY. They are not schools!

Show quote history

There's no law saying you have to go to the supermarket but it's still discrimination to offer that service only to able bodied people.
How is this difficult?

VikaOlson · 29/10/2025 15:29

drspouse · 29/10/2025 14:54

This isn't true though - if they are complaining the child won't sit still for 20 minute stories, they can make the story session shorter. If they find he can't wait for lunch, they could serve him first. If the afternoon play session is hard for him but he's OK first thing in the morning, they could find him a quiet space with 1 other child and one adult for the afternoons, and then he can have a calm down during the part of the day that's hard due to tiredness.
If they have tried all the things that don't cost money (like these), and have put in some effort to discover other reasonable adjustments (moving soft furnishings around can make an area a lot quieter if it's a really noisy area, allowing him to play outside if the indoor game is too much for him, not necessarily with a 1:1) that's the time they can say "we've tried ABC and XYZ, we're asking the LEA SEN department for advice, can we work together on applying for an EHCP to carry him into school".

Show quote history

That all sounds ideal, but also very person-intensive and relies on there only being one child in the class needing additional support and their support needs not conflicting with any other child's support needs.

It's easy to say 'why don't they just let him have lunch before everyone else?' but that takes an adult out of ratio to sit with him.
That's going to leave one adult to serve lunches and another to get 20+ other children hands washed, seated etc. It all falls apart if another child needs help or has an accident etc.

Doughtie · 29/10/2025 15:42

cestlavielife · 29/10/2025 15:20

Remember that specialist settings will definitely work with child and if they develop "too much" they will work to transition towards mainstream if your child develops in a way that he can move on from say specialist nursery. Some kids do mature communication wise ...get the communication developed and hitting stops becaise they can ask in a different way.
Specialist can deal with and work on behaviour

This is true. And specific SaLT resourced provision also exists within mainstream settings for students whose primary needs is SaLT.

ThatPoliteGreenKoala · 29/10/2025 15:52

This doesn’t sound right. Even though independent nurseries don’t have formal exclusion rules like schools, they still have to make reasonable adjustments for children with SEND under the Equality Act. If they ended his place because of behaviours linked to his additional needs, that could be considered discrimination. Definitely get advice from SENDIASS or your local authority’s early years inclusion team they can guide you on next steps.

goldenautumnleaves25 · 29/10/2025 15:54

Sorry to be so negative, but you will get used to having to fight fir everything.
What every other child gets easily and for free, parents of children with SENDs have to fight for tooth and nail, and pay. And once you have anything in place, you str expect to be grateful, even if the provision is awful and miles behind on what other kids are getting

Original poster
MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 16:02

goldenautumnleaves25 · 29/10/2025 15:54

Sorry to be so negative, but you will get used to having to fight fir everything.
What every other child gets easily and for free, parents of children with SENDs have to fight for tooth and nail, and pay. And once you have anything in place, you str expect to be grateful, even if the provision is awful and miles behind on what other kids are getting

Thank you for the honesty. Yes, this is what I'm gearing up for. Fortunately, I have a good support network around me and I'm very stubborn when I need to be.

OP posts:
Differentforgirls · 29/10/2025 16:04

drspouse · 29/10/2025 15:24

There's no law saying you have to go to the supermarket but it's still discrimination to offer that service only to able bodied people.
How is this difficult?

Show quote history

Tbh? You're either a troll or a person who has literally no clue about statutory education but wants to equte it to disabled people trying to buy a ready meal. In other words, you're a troll or a nutjob and I am going with the latter.

bumptybum · 29/10/2025 16:18

I hear you say you don’t excuse his actions which out other dc in a position of being regularly hit and pushed but then you tell parents who say their dc safety and wellbeing is their primary concern that they are being intolerant/lacking awareness and sensitivity.

the legality is not just surrounding your child The nursery has a legal requirement to keep other dc from being physically hurt. They are not in a position to have someone shadow your dc the entire time so they are not able to fulfil their legal responsibilities to keep other dc safe.

Original poster
MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 16:20

bumptybum · 29/10/2025 16:18

I hear you say you don’t excuse his actions which out other dc in a position of being regularly hit and pushed but then you tell parents who say their dc safety and wellbeing is their primary concern that they are being intolerant/lacking awareness and sensitivity.

the legality is not just surrounding your child The nursery has a legal requirement to keep other dc from being physically hurt. They are not in a position to have someone shadow your dc the entire time so they are not able to fulfil their legal responsibilities to keep other dc safe.

When have I said that? Genuinely, as that has not once been my intention.

OP posts:
Seathelight · 29/10/2025 16:21

drspouse · 29/10/2025 14:54

This isn't true though - if they are complaining the child won't sit still for 20 minute stories, they can make the story session shorter. If they find he can't wait for lunch, they could serve him first. If the afternoon play session is hard for him but he's OK first thing in the morning, they could find him a quiet space with 1 other child and one adult for the afternoons, and then he can have a calm down during the part of the day that's hard due to tiredness.
If they have tried all the things that don't cost money (like these), and have put in some effort to discover other reasonable adjustments (moving soft furnishings around can make an area a lot quieter if it's a really noisy area, allowing him to play outside if the indoor game is too much for him, not necessarily with a 1:1) that's the time they can say "we've tried ABC and XYZ, we're asking the LEA SEN department for advice, can we work together on applying for an EHCP to carry him into school".

Show quote history

Of course those things cost money. Staff time for a start. What if there are several SEN children in the nursery, how will the staff accomodate all of them with varying needs? How is it fair on the non-SEN children that everything is arranged to suit a few? IMHO this is surely teaching these children to be entitled from an early age. Play up and you get your own way. I don't think it's helping anyone and will lead to resentment from other parents and children.

Original poster
MumTeach88 · 29/10/2025 16:24

Seathelight · 29/10/2025 16:21

Of course those things cost money. Staff time for a start. What if there are several SEN children in the nursery, how will the staff accomodate all of them with varying needs? How is it fair on the non-SEN children that everything is arranged to suit a few? IMHO this is surely teaching these children to be entitled from an early age. Play up and you get your own way. I don't think it's helping anyone and will lead to resentment from other parents and children.

Show quote history

Please don't start mixing "playing up" and SEN needs. They are not the same thing.

OP posts:
Seathelight · 29/10/2025 16:49

Agreed they are not the same. Are you saying a SEN child is not capable of playing up though? Surely a SEN child needs guidance that their actions have consequences same as any child.

Gair · 29/10/2025 16:52

OP I hope that the many odd, unhelpful, nasty and wilfully obtuse replies you have had to your post do not drown out those that have been helpful and supportive. I had to check whether it was on AIBU, but no, you have posted on a Nurseries thread. Anyway, I just wanted to wish you the best of luck in getting your child's educational needs met. Speaking from experience, it can be a hard slog, but it is worth it when you can get provision that recognises and meets the additional needs - it can enormously improve quality of life and outcomes for both child and family, and down the line for society too. Best wishes!

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