Nursery mentioning austism in my child.

[CheekyBee10]

My son is currently 3 years and 8 months old. He does struggle with his emotions, when he doesn’t get his own way he kicks off and does hit, kick etc. I have never thought that this behaviour is anything but him being a toddler, other family members have also said they deem it to be the usual behaviour of a 3 year old.
However, nursery seem to believe that my son is “high on the scale of autism”. They think this because of his tantrums and because he’s intelligent. Literally no other issues whatsoever, he has good days and bad days with tantrums. He has more good days of course and most of his issues stem with wanting to have attention and his own way. He is currently an only child, so gets a lot of attention at home and quite honestly gets his own way most of the time. I’ve always said he has only child syndrome😂

There isn’t much point in this post other than needing to vent. I know people get their children diagnosed young, but for me personally I just think that 3 years of age is so young to diagnose something especially with behaviours that would be considered neurotypical also.

I am also aware that nursery staff see a lot of children so of course will have more experience but I just feel like they’re jumping the gun here. Am I being realistic?

Well I wish I was in your shoes. My oldest DD was diagnose with high-functioning autism at 16, about a decade after I started to wonder, because of lazy professionals who did not take my queries seriously.

(And because of sexism, of course - autism presents differently in girls and caregivers are much more attuned to the 'typical' male presentation.)

Consider yourself lucky that someone is paying attention. You don't have to make too much of the label; you don't have to take it as defining your child. But it will allow you access to services that may help. My daughter has spent the last half-decade friendless and oh how I wish I could turn back time and insist on more tests earlier.

Thank you!
People think they can judge my parenting even when he is a good boy the majority of the time.
Exactly just because people struggle with their emotions doesn’t mean they’re neurodivergent, but it’s common knowledge that neurodivergent people do struggle with it. (Does that make sense)

I have no issue with it if he is neurodivergent, I just wasn’t sure if they were jumping the gun because of one thing they’ve noticed. I have enquiried if there is anything else and they just said that he’s highly intelligent but again that could mean nothing.

Another main reason for my original post is that I don’t agree with how nursery have worded it and told me, we had a meeting and it was just a passing comment from the nursery manager who isn’t his key worker in the first place

I’m really sorry that that you were not taken seriously, I think it is awful when medical professionals do not listen to concerns. As parents you do have gut feelings about things and as time goes on, medical professionals should know more information about how it presents different depending on genders!

OP - see what the nursery actually want to do. They should have some sort of plan if they think he’s autistic. You can start a conversation.

I agree with PPs who have pointed out that ‘high on the scale of autism’ is pretty meaningless and they aren’t in a position to diagnose him. Additionally, you really need people on the ground to be taking an interest because the distinctions in behaviour are so subtle. As you’ve had on this thread, on the internet people extrapolate wildly and we can’t see the interactions going on.

In a way ‘I think he’s autistic’ is a bit of a lazy observation that gets made frequently in school settings by people with varying levels of qualifications. It could be absolutely spot on or it could be someone struggling to managing a child’s behaviour and assuming it’s the child’s fault. I have literally heard some school staff say ‘oh I can always spot them’ (meaning autistic children) when, let me tell you, they had no reason whatsoever to be saying that.

My child is an only child and as a parent you need to be tough on them because it's not funny having them acting like that and just saying 'only child syndrome'.
Don't blame your kid - you've created this and it won't get any better if you don't start being the parent and be firm.

Could you talk to the nursery again and say you're concerned they suggested autism, even in passing?

Ask why they suggested it as a possibility - in particular whether there are there any particular behaviours other than the tantrums pointing towards it. They'd also have information on how best to pursue a diagnosis in your particular area, if that's what you decide to do.

You did mention you had ND in the family and it does run in families. Nurseries can be good at spotting atypical behaviour too. So it's worth a closer look I think.

I have mentioned in comments that this part of my post has been taken completely wrong, it was a light hearted comment.
My child is disciplined, I never said he wasn’t. I am firm with him when he is being bad. What I meant was that the majority of the time where he is good, he gets toys, days out etc etc

Listen to them. Our nursery raised concerns at just after 3 (when he started), ours was more around social and communication issues. They were honest and said that they couldn’t diagnose but had a lot of experience and in their opinion there was something going on. We worked with them and the Health Visitor and had a diagnosis by the time he started school.

This has meant that he started reception with a clear plan in place to help him.

I didn’t want to accept it at first, but life became an awful lot easier when I did.

I had a meeting with them, they just said that they want both them and us (parents) to discipline the same way so it’s consistent. Which of course I’m fine with. His key worked stated that she knows he has it in him because most of the time he’s well behaved! Both the nursery and I agree that the reason he struggles to regulate is because he’s unable to take information in from us when we’re trying to calm him. I don’t discipline him until he is calm enough to actually take information in, otherwise I feel it’s pointless (I could be wrong, but surely it’s better for him to see the consequences when he’s able to understand and not all worked up).

It’s almost like it was made as a passing comment, like they never said anything about referral or going down the route of diagnosis (his key worker said she doesn’t want him “labelled” I hate that word, as it’s not a label)

Wow, teachers should not be making comments like that. They should be more professional. Every child that is diagnosed with autism, can have completely different symptoms. Plus they shouldn’t just be assuming, just because they show something that could be classed as a symptoms does not mean that they have autism either

From your comment it does seem that your nursery seemed to go around it a better way than what I am experiencing.
I’m happy to hear that you were able to get a diagnosis so quick as I know it can usually take a while.

I have no issues if my sons nursery do have concerns, being neurodivergent is absolutely fine and I would deal with it as I see best. I just feel like firstly, they’re not being very professional about it and I just wasn’t sure if they were jumping the gun a little. They have not raised any other concerns when asked, so wasn’t too sure

Wow, teachers should not be making comments like that. They should be more professional. Every child that is diagnosed with autism, can have completely different symptoms. Plus they shouldn’t just be assuming, just because they show something that could be classed as a symptoms does not mean that they have autism either.

I disagree, to an extent anyway. I think it's vital that teachers etc do pass on their concerns and flag it if they think the child has a difficulty.

Obviously they need to be careful and they can't diagnose, but if they think behaviour is atypical then they should flag that imho. And yes, say 'this is sometimes a trait you see in autistic kids' or similar.

We have the opposite problem where I am (not UK). Teachers are afraid to mention autism. I know this from my teacher friends. Instead they talk in a sort of code...'is it behavioural', 'could be sensory' etc. To a parent who is unfamiliar with the world of neurodiversity this can go over their heads. What they really mean is 'look into autism' but it can take too long for the penny to drop if they don't actually say it. And that's not helpful.

I understand, however in my opinion if the teach does see signs, then they should take it directly to the parent first before discussing further. That’s just my opinion though and how I would want things to happen in my case. They shouldn’t just be saying “they’ve got autism” to other teachers, when they don’t know if the child does or doesn’t.

OP just concentrate on your child.
Of course professionals, such as teaches, should speak appropriately to other colleagues about concerns - especially if those others also have contact with your child. It ensurdles a more balanced approach. They're not just gossiping.
There will be protocols around this in schools etc. They might be seeking advice from colleagues with more experience.

That meeting sounds like a starting point at least- does sound a bit weird that someone just made a passing comment about autism without actually bringing it up in the meeting. Tbh with this info I would probably put that comment down to someone being inexperienced. I’d prob just see how your DS gets on and if they make any more observations in the next few months.

@Beamur think OP was referring to my post in which I said I have overheard school staff saying ‘I can always spot them’. Which is verbatim a comment I have heard at least twice. Sometimes staff do just speculate about SEN with very little to go on - I’ve had to be involved in training in a sen team where we were basically saying to teachers, please bring us concerns don’t just start randomly talking to parents about additional needs. Unfortunately SEND is not delivered very comprehensively on a lot of training courses and you can also have wildly different attitudes across a staff team.

If he was honestly well behaved 99% of the time, nursery wouldn't be speaking to you. Can't you see this?

Also when professionals say it's common, they mean that they see children this age doing it. They don't mean it's typical to be doing it to the extent that it gets mentioned to you. You're the one who said you never say no to him and that he reacts badly - he, and I quote, quite honestly gets his own way most of the time.

People who work day in day out with children can spot it a mile off. Parents often don't spot it mainly because they don't know anything different. They only start noticing at about age 7/8 when it starts to become obvious to all.

Although I might just add, the whole thing sounds bizarre and not professional in the slightest. We can spot them a mile off but very very rarely discuss this with the parent. We almost wait now for the parent to bring it up with us, which is why I think they're focusing on the behaviour. ND kids do not (or rather should not) get a pass for poor behaviour. Poor behaviour is just that.

I don't even think it sounds like autism. He just sounds badly behaved and used to getting his own way all of the time. Having to share, having someone say 'no' to him, having to transition from one activity to the next is not something he's able to do.

Although I might just add, the whole thing sounds bizarre and not professional in the slightest. We can spot them a mile off but very very rarely discuss this with the parent.

May I ask why not @nosmartphone? Is there someone else you refer the parents to instead?
(Genuinely curious, not trying to have a go at you.)

Obviously you can't diagnose, but wouldn' it help to guide parents in the right direction ?

I found the 'say nothing' approach very frustrating in the teachers who worked with my child. Because of their experience, they knew, or at least strongly suspected, before we did, yet they didn't tell us. They vaguely hinted perhaps, using terms we weren't familiar with at the time, but never mentioned autism or neurodiverseity. It meant there was a delay in getting DS help and that has had long term consequences for him.

As per a comment I have made previously. He can go weeks, months without any of these “tantrums”. The nursery inform me of when he has them and what happens, so I am aware of how often they are happening, so it isn’t that often. If he was having a tantrum every time he was told no etc I could understand slightly more; but this isn’t the case. He too is extremely good with sharing toys with anyone, he loves to play with other children 🤷🏼‍♀️

I agree with you, but it's very clear with the authority I was working with that we are simply not allowed to say/suggest. Ten years ago I remember a colleague being disciplined for having done so and the parents had come in furious with the school in general. Unwilling to accept their child may have additional needs and threatening to sue.

My own experience as a parent is like yours. I knew from my child being a baby there was something different to his neurotypical older sibling. I was the one asking all the time to nursery staff/teachers, "Are you seeing signs of ND with them?" Non one wanted to help. It was only when we moved schools and I insisted with the new school that I needed help they agreed they 100% saw what I did. We now work together which is brilliant.

I'm now self employed and made the mistake 2 years ago of informing a parent that their child was behind developmentally and likely to be autistic (not as blunt as that, I had lots of evidence and I was very professional in my choice of words) Their grandparent fully agreed with me and was relieved. The mother went ballistic. Cue end of that relationship. In my experience, the vast majority of parents simply think their child is cute/immature/high spirited and will not entertain that actually they're not neurotypical. I would say parents like us are in the minority.

I will never ever now bring this up. I will simply tell parents of behaviour that has taken place, lack of focus, inability to concentrate, poor spelling etc and hope they will connect the dots for themselves and ask me directly do I think their child is dyslexic/ADHD/autistic. Once they've asked, I can say I have seen x y x, would they like me to actively assess.

I might also add it's probably due to the lack of funding. No teacher wants to be the one who brings it up as there is a hell of a lot of paperwork to start doing. I honestly think most hope that the teacher the year after will do it! I got in trouble for flagging a child with dyslexia. Parent was delighted and long term yes, i have helped that child but would I do it again? Probably not.

My son is currently 3 years and 8 months old. He does struggle with his emotions, when he doesn’t get his own way he kicks off and does hit, kick etc.
Literally no other issues whatsoever, he has good days and bad days with tantrums. He has more good days of course and most of his issues stem with wanting to have attention and his own way. He is currently an only child, so gets a lot of attention at home and quite honestly gets his own way most of the time.

sounds nothing like...

He can go weeks, months without any of these “tantrums”. The nursery inform me of when he has them and what happens, so I am aware of how often they are happening, so it isn’t that often. If he was having a tantrum every time he was told no etc I could understand slightly more; but this isn’t the case. He too is extremely good with sharing toys with anyone, he loves to play with other children 🤷🏼‍♀️

Can you see why it's confusing for people to offer advice? You may as well be talking about two different children, and the second one wouldn't be worthy of it's own thread.

Thank you very much for your reply @nosmartphone. I believe it to be case where I am too...that teachers are advised not to speak up for fear of upsetting parents and the resulting negative reactions.

It doesn't help the affected children unfortunately though. My ND child is our eldest so unfortunately I didn't have the experience of what was typical development for his age...and his differences were subtle anyway at that stage. I hadn't a single clue about autism. It took me too long to join the dots and I wish it had been different.

Thanks again for your reply. I do understand the diffcult position teachers are in, but I wish there were something in place to help these children earlier.

OP, please don’t get worked up over the comments. No one on here knows you to call you a bad parent or your child a ‘nightmare’

I would absolutely listen to the nursery and take their comments on board, although not trained to diagnose autism, they will have a lot of experience with autistic children and the referral process. It does sound semi normal behaviour for his age but not being able to regulate his emotions and lashing out isn’t ideal and he obviously needs some support.

what does the nursery suggest? Do they want to do a referral? FYI, he’s very unlikely to get diagnosed if he’s not autistic so try not to stress about misdiagnosis. Good luck x

They should not try to diagnose. That was an unprofessional way of putting things.

Can nurseries see that a child is not typical? Absolutely. Can the give a good guess at why? Definitely. We had a child a few years ago at my nursery who was diagnosed with autism around age 5 but it was bleeding obvious from the baby room. Parents refused to acknowledge it was a possibility so he was sent off to school where they insisted he had tests. He was diagnosed and the very slow process started towards getting him the help he needed, but there were lots of problems due to the delay. His development suffered because his parents refused to believe there could be an issue. Are you so certain he's fine that you're willing to risk his future?

Get him tested. Show the result to the nursery. Wouldn't that be the best answer if you're right?

It really doesn’t matter if the nursery was unprofessional or casual about the remark. OP is displacing her anxiety onto them, as she is onto commenters here, rather than dealing with the issue.

Just reframe it, OP: worker X raised a concern about son’s behavior and its root cause. What are next steps we should take to determine whether that was correct or not? Watchful waiting? More supports? Evaluation and pathway to more services?

Maybe worker X was wrong, clumsy, premature, inexperienced. If so time will tell. The most important person here is not you and your feelings of shame, confusion, and resentment are not important either. Someone who works with your son has cared enough to think deeply about his behavior and try to find root causes and therefore good solutions. How they did that is not as important as that they did it.