*TRIGGER WARNING** - upsetting news article about 9month old death at nursery

[someoneanyoneeveryone]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/18/baby-told-stop-whingeing-alleged-killer-stockport-nursery

i am so appalled to read this
i cant imagine what the poor parents are going through but it’s making me very fearful to leave my son at nursery (he’s 10months and I have to go back to work soon).

my heart breaks
RIP GENEVIEVE 🤍

This sounds horrific and tragic and I totally understand why it's made you worry. Just wanted to let you know that we had an amazing experience with our nurseries when our kids were little. Both mine went at around 10 months. This is one rotten apple in a badly run nursery and sadly that happens. Pur nursery was very quick to investigate and let go a new member of staff who was negligent in a slightly different but in an unsafe way and I was hugely reassured that it was the other staff who had reported her.

I know this is a strange concept to you, mind blowing stuff actually, but how about as mums we support each other and understand that a big part of being a mum is making decisions that are best for each person’s family.

How about we don’t be arsey and act superior because you made a decision others didn’t?

It’s a crazy concept isn’t it! Might even help you become a better person.

I think this thread has taken a horrible turn to attacking childcare workers and the parents who use them.

@Rainyspringflowers I agree.

I have no problem with people choosing not to use childcare if that's what they and their partner agree.

However, there's a small number of posters who only seem comfortable with other parents using childcare if

A) the children are stressed, unhappy or worse, or
B) the children are ok but mum spends her whole time stressing about possible abuse

Which actually tells you a lot about those people! They clearly feel threatened by the fact that the vast majority of childcare is not abusive or neglectful and that the children in it thrive. And their parents are both able to develop their careers. Actually that final point is perhaps why they find it threatening...

As someone who had to visit various nurseries for work, I was frequently horrified by the baby rooms. The children were safe but essentially left unattended far too often. Older kids generally excellent provision - but to state the obvious generally older kids can talk, babies sadly can’t tell their parents what’s happening.

"There’s no easy answer - either you suffer or your child does."

And this is precisely the sort of insidious comment which perpetuates the concept that mums - because it's always the mums, not dads! - shouldn't be allowed to have any aspect of their life which is separate from their young children. If you dare to use childcare, either the children must be suffering, or if by some lucky fluke they're thriving, then mum must suffer with guilt and anxiety.

Wow. We really haven't come very far that some people still hold these misogynistic views. How dare a mum actually use childcare, have happy thriving children and a career and a life as an independent entity!

I think using childcare is fine, but it's also fine to point out that there's quite a decent amount of respectable academic work suggesting that early attachment is vital to long term mental health, and that there's not much substitute for your mum when you're a baby.

Two and three year olds will have a grand old time at high quality provision (more likely to be Sure Starts and not 'international chains' where profit comes before kids). But they probably will do better if they're not there from 7 to 7.

Absolutely, secure attachment is extremely important, I don't think anyone has denied that. That doesn't mean a child will suffer if it's not with mother 24/7.

This nursery is very near me. Friends' children attended with no issues. I look around it but wasn't keen so chose another for my two which was fantastic. I can only imagine the parents' regret at having opted for the one in question. It has permanently closed. It's at the end of a road opposite a car park and it makes me shiver even to park there.

The premises are still in use as a nursery under different management. Personally I couldn't send a child there just because of these events which is irrational but some parents will have had to as there is a dearth of places locally.

I temp at various nurseries and generally there are good people trying to do their best for the children in their care against an absolute shit show of poor management, long hours and crap pay leading to staff burnout and the mountain of admin Ofsted require them to file daily. It’s harder now to find level 3 qualified staff, there is an absolute recruitment crisis across the board, most nurseries are propped up by bank staff and temps. There is no excuse for what happened here and despite what I’ve described above most of the staff I come across really do care for the children and would never, ever speak to a baby like that. It’s appalling. There are certainly the odd one or two who I feel should have more patience and empathy towards small children in general but they are not unsafe to look after them.

The nursery in question here was obviously in huge trouble already if this woman was left ‘caring’ for ten babies with no back up, but I would think this situation is very rare- to stay within ratios I’ve known nurseries to pull staff from the office, get temps in as an emergency, ring parents to see if anyone can collect, or combine baby rooms with ones for older children where the ratio might be 1:4 or even 1:8- you still need a 1:3 ratio for infants but it’s more eyes on. The fact that things were left to deteriorate to this level is absolutely disgraceful.

The ratios thing is troubling. Friends who work in the industry say that they are regularly called in to the office to complete admin tasks while technically down to be working in one of the childcare rooms. They have even been drafted in to prepare meals in the kitchen when they are down to watch children. The manager says the ratios are about adults in the building, not in each room.

There is a nursery near me that was £18 cheaper A DAY and included nappies, wipes and milks which none of the others do.

I walked the dog past there and on several occasions stopped to observe (they have a huge glass front) and noted that children were unsupervised eating in highchairs. So the risk was two fold, choking and also falling from high chairs.

Obviously didn’t pick that nursery but could see that happening there!

Name changed as reveals my location but this nursery is local to me, it’s one of the nurseries we considered for my DC and I have friends who had DC there at the time. It has been horrendous for them - they had all been happy with the nursery, I remember it being recommended to me but the thing that put me off was that due to Covid they weren’t offering any tours, and they had a policy of dropping the DC off at reception then the manager took the children through - so no meeting of key workers. Like fuck was I handing my baby over to someone I’d not even met, but we were incredibly lucky that I was only returning to work at that point on a very part time/ flexible basis so we had time and options to choose, but for those with out that flexibility the options really were very limited during and in between lockdowns and it made it really difficult to make informed choices.

Nothing compared to the pain the poor family who lost their child are going through of course, it’s beyond imagining. And whilst I’d heard some of what happened, the details that are emerging now are beyond horrific.

I’m surprised Ofsted allowed that huge glass front that any passer by could look in & see the children, that’s a worry in itself.

Can we chat about current criminal cases on here?

I remember when there was chat about baby serial killer Lucy Letby, whilst the trial was going on, it was promptly shut down

Yes same here, every time we go to the library I think of that poor family, I couldn’t bring myself to use it although I know logically that doesn’t make sense.

Yes because we are discussing the trial itself and the arguments/evidence advanced at it which are in the public domain already.

I heard this story earlier in the week. All the staff where I work are appalled that such a thing could happen. I know it was scary timing for you but not all nurseries are like this.

We have established staff who have been with us years and turn over is low, I would trust that any staff member who was feeling stressed by the children would ask a colleague for help, not take it out on the children. I also believe that any one of us would whistleblow if we felt staff were unsuitable to be with the children. Staff are confident to speak to our manager. We would definitely never leave one person with ten babies. You should have four staff members in with that many under two!

Can picture this scenario very clearly and it’s devastating.
There are a lot of people who should not be working with children. No idea how the parents will heal from this. Just awful.

I’m baffled as to why people with no compassion, empathy and basic kindness choose to go into a caring profession. Look after things, not people.

Yes, this occurred to me too, when I thought about the ratio of ten babies to one member of staff. They cannot possibly be able to feed them safely. I saw a pp has already mentioned the case of a baby choking to death on a piece of mango at an Edinburgh nursery. This was local to me at the time. I remember being horrified to read that the baby was unsupervised. Basic safety rules dictate that babies should never be left alone to eat, and so this was a clear case of neglect as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, it's all just utterly horrible. That nursery worker must surely have known the danger she placed that baby in. It's unbearable to think of what the parents must be going through.

I never leave the table when the babies/children are eating. Eyes on them all, the whole time. With sleep, checked every 5 minutes if under 1 years, every 10 minutes if over that age. One person to stay in the sleep room at all times.

I’m a baby room manager in a big nursery and we follow ‘safe sleep’ so strictly, it’s unbelievable this could happen 💔