Picking a Nursery

[KoalaChaos]

Hi.

So, my DS just turned 5 months and I will have to return to work in January ish when he is approx 9 - 10 months (depending on taking some holiday to extend my leave)

All of the nurseries near me say they have waiting lists until January so my timing is OK for them.

There is 2 that I have rejected outright due to horrifying ofsted reports (toldlers left unsupervised when eating resulting in choking, no hand washing facilities and potties being emptied into the kitchen sink whilst it was actively being used to prep food for lunch 🤢)
But I am lucky enough to still have 3 other nurseries to choose from very close to me.

I have booked visits to all 3 of the remaining nurseries to happen this week on Wed, thur and Fri since DH has the week off and we can go together.

Problem is we sat down this afternoon to plan our week and when we got to the nursery visits we said "ok, we are going here, here and here.... erm.... what do we do when we are there? We know we are supposed to look at them but what are we looking for? What do we ask? Surely a nursery is a nursery?"

The 3 that are left do have some variances in their ofsted reports but they are all things I think I'm OK with. I know the reports aren't everything but they are all I have to go on right now.

My question is, what do we ask? What are we looking for?

Any input is appreciated 🙂

Honestly, for me it was just the feel of the place. Also outside space - ours had a Forest School which was important to me. Staff turnover. How the children seem. What food do they serve.

Sleep and sleep areas - how do they get babies to sleep? Is the sleep area in the ''main'' area of the nursery or is there a designated sleeping room?

Nap times - Do they have set nap times? Are they happy to go with your nap routine as much as possible?

Settling in sessions - How does this work? Do you have to pay for them?

How do the outdoor areas compare?

They may also tell you these things as they show you around. I found that I didn't have to ask many questions because they anticipated the most common questions.

It does depend largely on what is important to you and what you know about your little one and how they settle best.

If important to you ask to see the weekly meal plan and if it is externally catered and brought in or cooked on site.

Look at the outside space available to your child. Think about the future - so look at the rooms for babies, toddlers, and pre schoolers. Ask how many there are in each room and what the maximum numbers are.

You can also check what learning/development there is for the older children so you have an idea of their methods, when they are babies this is limited but once older it is quite important if you have preferences towards free play learning - or towards structure/routine within the day which may begin preparing them for school.

In terms of meeting staff, if you can meet the baby room staff then you will know if you get a good feeling from them, the other rooms the staff my change so I wouldn't worry too much about them.

Check how many weeks of the year they are open, many shut for a week at Xmas (still charged) and open the rest - if you have one who's shut 2 weeks at Xmas and you are charged that may be off putting.

Find out about any outings/events they do if that is important to you, or external visits to the local park/walks in the local area etc - you may prefer them to be in one place to feel better, or may like the idea of them getting out at times.

If you know anyone in the area using any of them then that's one of the best ideas you can get of the place also!

I have no idea how naps will work when he goes.

Obviously there is a lot of development and change that cam happen between now and January but right now he won't nap unless I'm there since he will only contact nap. And then only with me and refuses for DH or nana or anyone else.

He will literally just either stay awake all day playing with his fingers which he has done on multiple occasions despite our trying to get him to sleep, or scream continuously until you pick him up.

He will sleep in his own bed in a next to me cot at night but it takes a 2 and a half hour very involved bedtime routine to achieve which obviously they can't be expected to do. (And I have to hold his hand all night from my side or he wakes up within around 15 mins of letting go)

Gut feeling.

Do the kids look happy and engaged.

Do the staff look happy and engaged.

Is it clean and well organised.

Is there ample outside space.

Is there ample inside space.

How often do they take the children on trips (if your baby is there full time you don't want them spending 50 hours a week, every week in the same four walls).

What are the staff like. Young/Old. Experienced/Inexperienced. What is staff turnover like (try and ask the staff directly how long they've worked there, rather than a general question about turnover).

How do they cover absent staff. How do they cover staff lunch hours/breaks.

What food do they serve. Where is it prepared. How and where is it served.

How do they communicate with parents. What is their key worker system. How do they deal with problems.

They do "go out trips" at nursery?!?!? (Can you tell he's my 1st? Lol)
That seems insane! No no no. I'm BARELEY OK with the thought of leaving him in a safe, evaluated, structured building for the day. I don't want them taking him out at all! If the nursery does do trips do they all have to go or do some stay back? I feel like I will be more ok with him doing things like that when he reaches todler and can talk and tell me if there is a problem but as a baby absolutely not.

I doubt they'll do trips with the babies. Although if you think about it, it's much safer for them to take an immobile baby out than a toddler! So being ok with him going out as a toddler, but not a baby makes no sense! But that's anxiety for you, it doesn't make any sense!

It is important to get a handle on it though, so you can make decisions based on what's best for your child and not what most soothes the voice in your head. It's not ok for your child to be locked up 50 hours a week or left behind while his friends go out because you're suffering with anxiety.

Only the good nurseries will do trips out though. It won't be all nurseries.

Mine does. It might be as simple as going to the local park and feeding the ducks.

All outings/trips are risk assessed just like trips in school are. Mine goes full time so I love that he gets to go on little outings/trips.

As above, gut feeling mainly. We viewed one and there was nothing I could state that was “wrong” with it but it just didn’t feel right. When we viewed the second one we just knew that was the one.

Other things

Cleanliness (they may have a messy activity going on at the time but is there dust/leftover food on the floor)
What qualifications do the staff have? Are all staff first aid trained? (Legally only one has to be)
Are nappies/wipes etc provided?
How do they track your child's development and plan activities around that?
Do they use agency staff? Is the manager included in their child:staff ratios?
Look at the children, do they look happy and engaged?
Are the meals balanced and cooked on-site?
Do they have quality wooden toys/sensory water trays for activities etc or is it all just plastic rubbish?

Ours did trips in pre-school, but only local - literally walking from nursery out to the park nearby in small groups, or to the village. Nothing major, and I've never seen a trip with babies. But ours had an acre of land, so more scope than most for different environments.

Don't worry about sleep. Nurseries are magic. Mine only fell asleep in our arms until he was 2.5... except at nursery, where he'd curl up in a little wooden curricle with all the others and go to sleep for two hours in a noisy room. It's crazy.

Yes, nursery staff are nap ninjas. It’s incredible.

My son used to go out on trips from the toddler room in one of these!

I haven't got a problem with him going out from the todler room as a trip. Have you ever tried to lose a todler? At that volume no one is grabbing one when you aren't looking. And when they can tell you things like "yeah today was so fun! We hid in a bin and and miss x couldn't find us and they were running round looking for us then we jumped out at them " tells you that they lost a child for a while even if THEY dont tell you because they dont feel its a problem.

Its going out as a baby that I'd say no to. 1 person taking 1 baby out is fine, but it's not. It's 1 person taking a few babies out. If one has a problem and there's a distraction then they are unwatched in an open environment. And honestly, he couldn't care less about feeding ducks at 9 months old.... he doesn't know what a duck is. I don't care if they are risk assessed. I used to write risk assessments for a living. You can write a risk assessment to say whatever you want, but we don't live in an ideal world and anyone can do whatever they want in practice. A risk assessment is there to protect the company, not the staff and not the clientele. I.e. as long as a company has a risk assessment saying you have to wear safety boots and they tell you that you have to wear them, and do checks to make sure you obey, then you decide to take yours off and break your foot when their back is turned, they were compliant with their mitigations and aren't liable and you can't claim or sue them so they are happy because they have their paperowrk. Doesn't stop you having a broken foot though.

He wouldn't be in there 50 hours a week. He would only be going 2 days a week (maybe 3 days as a 1 off when his nana is on holiday and I could plan it with them in advance)

blushroses6
Oooohhh I like the question about agency staff! I hadn't considered that. In my work our management regularly hires agency staff and it makes everyone's job harder and less safe and an overall less pleasant working environment so that's a good question.

Food was the only thing we had come up with ourselves to ask as DS has some food allergies so we need to ask about those and possible cross contamination and how things are prepped. Also, how they are served. All well and good giving DS allergy friendly foods but when I was a kid we would swap food with each other regularly as trades (my friend was obsessed with mash potato and i liked beans so we swapped so i had all the beans and he had all my mash) so we want to know how many staff supervise meals to make sure he doesn't end up with something he shouldn't.

And I know everyone says nurseries are nap magic but what do they DO when they have a baby that won't stop screaming? it must happen at some point where they can't calm one down. I had to go to the hospital for a few hours for tests last month and DS was home with DH (normally very cute and cuddly and competent together so I wasn't concerned about being away for a few hours) I walked back into the house to screaming. Turns out he had been screaming at full volume for over 4 hours and no amount of cuddling, feeding, changing, bouncing, playing, rocking or anything else had worked. He handed him to me and he instantly stopped and grinned at me. Nothing was wrong, he just wasn't getting the exact thing he wanted for those 4 hours. What would a nursery do in a situation like that? I dont want to encourage the behaviour of scream till mummy arrives, so long term working through it is the goal, but even on one off day it would disrupt everyone else there too. He's done it plenty of other times too, just 4 hours was the longest since the hospital was longer than a quick trip to asda.

We only looked around 2 but the difference in gut feeling was the biggest thing.

Nursery 1 was new, built for purpose, great facilities and excellent outside space. Lady showing us round was smiling and friendly but felt like she was just running through a script. If she asked our little girl's name, she never used it or engaged with her. Felt like we were being rushed around.

Nursery 2 has a manager who has worked there for 20 years, much smaller, less shiny. Limited outside space but they do a lot with what they have. Got shown around on 2 occasions by different staff. Both were lovely, really engaged with our daughter, introduced her to the whole room when we looked in. Happy to chat about her, offered her toys if she took an interest on the way round. Totally different feel.

Easy choice to go for number 2.

Also regarding naps, my little one is now nearly 2 and still only contact naps at home. Nursery had it sussed within 2 days! Read books and sang songs to keep calm and eventually got her off to sleep. Even held her for a nap once when she was struggling. She now does 1.5 hours a day there consistently.

It absolutely isn’t just 1 person watching multiple babies on trips or at least not at my DC’s nursery anyway.

My 9 month old loves a trip to the park to feed the ducks, he doesn’t need to know what a duck is to enjoy it. Just like he doesn’t know what a swing is but he enjoys that too.

Since your DC is only going a few days a week anyway it doesn’t really matter but mine goes full time so trips out were one of the important things to me. Didn’t want him stuck in the same building 5 days a week with only access to the same outdoor space even though it is good.

To be honest if you only want 2 days a week you might find that they are not all keen to have you as a customer anyway. It’s not great for settling in purposes and it messes up what they can offer to other parents.

I think you are worrying unduly about their ability to look after the needs of more than one baby in a buggy at once. Mothers up and down the country manage that every day!

Also extra days don’t tend to be that readily available as they need to maintain strict ratios at all times.

Yeah, extra ad hoc days might be tricky.

It sounds like you're panicking a bit about something that is completely normal - hundreds of thousands of babies will be in nursery right now, and they're fine. In the baby room at ours they rocked babies to sleep if they needed it - I remember seeing a key worker with one in each arm, both sleeping peacefully but needing that contact. They employed over ratio so they had floating cover. If your DS is really upset they might call you, but generally children are fine once they 1) realise you've really gone, and 2) settle and develop a relationship with their key workers. Also a five month old is very different to a 10 month old. But definitely start leaving him on a regular basis so he gets used to it.

All nurseries will be using agency staff sometimes because there simply aren't enough early years staff to go around - it's a very low-paid, difficult job. What you want is a core of regular, long-term staff.

A good nursery absolutely will not allow children to swap food. Primary schools yes, probably it happens - which is what you'll be remembering. At our nursery they had one key worker per table of five children, they had a different colour plate for whatever restrictions they had, and they were absolutely not allowed to eat off someone else's plate.

I'm not sure if you're joking in the first paragraph! But if you're not, that's genuinely quite concerning. Firstly, that you think a stranger wouldn't try and grab a toddler! Secondly, that you don't seem to recognise any hazard of a trip out other than kidnap! Thirdly, that you think a baby of nine months wouldn't benefit from a trip to the ducks because they don't know what a duck is?!?!

If he's only there two days a week, a no trip nursery will be fine. But do educate yourself on what to safeguard against on a trip out and maybe a bit of child development (babies don't know what anything is, doesn't mean they don't benefit from looking at it!!).

I'm nervous about it because I've seen it before with a baby. I didn't know it could be a nursery trip at the time though. I thought it was an organised birthday party in the park or something similar.
But I was heading to a public toilet and there was a baby in a pram just outside. I paused and looked around for about 10 seconds confused as to why there was a baby on its own and a woman wearing a 'kids something ' barnsed polo shirt came out of the toilets with another one (carrying a bag of clothes at arms length). She apologised saying she had had to change the other one because it was bad and there wasn't space for the buggy in there with them. I clearly looked a bit odd at her when she said it because she replied "oh it's fine, I left the door open so I could hear if they cried!" And she walked them both off.
Just no. Its not OK to leave a baby where anyone could just walk up and walk off with it. At least if you've got toddlers in that situation you can take them in with you even if that means they running round making noise in the way. the baby was in a lie flat cot.

As for 2 days a week, 2 out of the 3 nurseries we are viewing have 2 day or 3 day week options advertised (they want to dictate the days so you do M/W/F or T/T but that doesn't bother us we can work with that).
And at least one of them has in their description that if we need a random day extra then they require at least 8 weeks notice which again is fine since nana books her holidays 9 months in advance.

Also, its not like he wouldn't get to do things like park trips. But DH and I take him on weekends and evenings. DH also works in a rural environment so there's lots of outside and exploring and such when he visits there 1 day a week.

SnapdragonToadflax

Oh I like that they can use coloured plates for allergies. Might ask that when we view and if they do we can try to match their colours for his allergies at home to prep him and get him comfortable with his food comes from this colour plate

That example you’ve given sounds really strange. I wonder if it a questionable childminder? Or more likely someone with their own kids that also happens to work at Kids Whatever soft play (the polo shirt). Nurseries aren’t out with 1 adult and 2 kids. They’re in much larger groups and if 1 is doing a change someone else be watching the others. And they very rarely have babies so young they’re still in lie flat pram bassinets at nursery in the UK- the bassinet means they’re definitely younger 6 months, probably sub 4. I wouldn’t let that influence you at all.

But I’d look for happy kids, engaged staff, good separate sleep space, healthy food but nothing too adventurous they won’t eat it, staff that have been there a long time, decent outside space. Personally I always knew we’d do school nursery from 2 so I wasn’t concerned about the preschool offerings but if you intend them to stay on then make sure you look at those rooms too.

I think the posters that mentioned trips, were trying to get you to remember that you aren't just looking for care for a baby. That your little one not only won't be 5 months when they start (babies change and develop so much over weeks, let alone months in their first 2 years), but that in the blink of an eye they will be a toddler, and then a pre-schooler.
They are trying to get you to remember to look at how children who are 2.6 or 3.6 are stimulated and occupied.

at your horror of them going out.

The main reason I would (and did) 100% choose a Childminder over a Nursery was the fact my childminders were always out and about doing normal things that a SAHP would be doing. Out and about somewhere, every day, and not sat in the same room all day except when it was their turn to be in the garden / outside area.

Make sure you pick a nursery that doesn't go out. Don't go to one that does take the children for walks then insist they don't take your child out. That would make it hard if not impossible to take any child for a walk and the staff will hate you.

Ask if they're doing the new ratios of 5:1 in the toddler room. If they are, avoid it.

Ask if they're doing the new ratios of 5:1 in the toddler room. If they are, avoid it.

Good point

Yes, definitely this. Our nursery said they would not be doing it.

Most larger nurseries around here are free flow to outside once they're walking age, for at least part of the day. It'll depend on the space they have, but that was important to me. My son often came home covered in mud where he'd been digging in the garden all day. They also did Forest School sessions at least once a week.

Out of interest why are people saying 5:1 is a negative and to avoid? My eldest went to daycare in the states where it was 8:1 for 2YOs. She absolutely loved it and we were really happy with it. My nieces went to creche in France which is also 8:1. My 2YO is at a British school nursery and it didn’t even occur to me to ask about ratios although they run on the academic year so 2 kids have already turned 3 so not sure how that works. Anyway, I can’t imagine why 5:1 would be concerning. Am I missing something?
(sorry for the derail just genuinely interested!)