Paying for broken window at nurery

[pauamcg]

Hi I would appreciate your views/advice please.

My 4 year old son broke a window at his nursery last week by throwing a train across the room. I believe he was having a bit of a tantrum, but he didn't aim purposely at the window.

When the manager called me to tell me what had happened I questioned whether she expected me to pay for the replacement glass but she said 'No, don't be silly'. When my husband went to pick my son up (before speaking to me) he offered to pay 50% of the cost (mainly because he was embarrassed our son had been naughty) and the manager said 'we'll see'.

Well today we have received an invoice for 50% of the replacement cost.

Do you think I should have to pay this ?
Wouldn't the nursery be able to claim off their insurance ?

Its not really the amount of money & I don't want to fall out with the nursery, its just the principle that I feel that I pay then large enough fees anyway, that I shouldn't really have to pay. my 4 year old was in their care when the accident happened.

My other concern is - shouldn't the window has been fitted with some sort of safety glass so that it shouldn't have broken so easily and put the children at risk ?? Does Ofsted have any guidelines ??

Sorry this has turned out to be a long post, but any views or advice gratefully received.

always dodgy to assign adult understanding and intentions to a 4 year old.

Also very dodgy to assume that all 4 year olds are at the same stage of development.

Well, some of it has, Lulumama and some of it has been a bit hectoring. Though to be honest, Bbobysum sounds quite able to take care of herself.

i think people were outrageed that a nursery owner thought it was 'disgusting' parents would not pay for accidental damage and the expectations of small children that seem unrealisitic.
it is certainly interesting and not something i had really thought about before

I think it was unrealistic of people not to accept that parents can go ballistic over nursery accidents to their children. I've read enough AIBU threads to know there are some parents who would kick up a horrible fuss.

I've also seen (IRL) a parent fly off the handle when she was told (yet again) that her son had been hitting other children. "He's only four" she stormed. Which was true but he kept hitting other children and that's a pain all round.

It's part of the spectrum of four year old behaviour but not all four year olds do it regularly.

you are right
but those posting with personal experience of incidents and saying they had not gone ballistic were refuted by bobbysmum.
i have given my opinion on the situation and i stand by it

My dd1, whilst at nursey, tried to dive into the softplay from a height and missed, breaking her arm. Accidents happen and ANYONE with kids, whether a nursery nurse or not, knows that you can't prevent them all. Of course i didn't go ballistic - dd was very happy at the nursery and this was the one and only incident of it's kind. Bobbysmum, I think your attitude is appauling and I sincerely hope you do not run a nursery near me. You don't sound like you enjoy your job at all.

As for paying for the window, it was an accident and he is a child so I don't think you should have to pay. BUT...you did offer twice, which does put you in a difficult position and you can't blame the nursery for taking that offer seriously when it was repeated. You have two choices, you either have to backtrack, apologise and say you offered out of embarrassment or you should pay. Neither choice is great, but I'm afraid there seems to be no other option.

gwynniestwin, you sound like a very reasonable parent. My own dcs have had occasional accidents and been hurt (not at nursery but at school) and I'm glad to say that DH and I have also taken a philosophical attitude about it. Although I don't agree with everything bobbysmum has said, I DO think she's been given a hard time by some posts. I think the issue is that some parents can be totally UNreasonable, and coupled with the 'blame' culture that we live in, it makes it really tough for people in childcare work. (I'm in teaching, where there can be similar issues with parents wanting to blame the school for everything). There was a post early on this thread which tried to completely turn the situation around and say that the nursery was negligent!! This is total bollocks!! How can a nursery physically prevent a child from throwing a toy hard if the child chooses to?
FWIW, I DON'T think most 4 years olds would do this. It's not unusual for toddlers to have tantrums, but 4 is very different from, say, a two year old. A 4 year old is old enough to be in a reception class, and I think this kind of behaviour, while not unheard of, is certainly not frequent. And you can bet your life that if the toy had hit a child, cut them on the face and maybe scarred them for life, then the nursery probably WOULD get the blame.

Of course parents fly off the handle- but it's the nurseries job to deall with nutters over emotional parents.

The 4 year old thing is tricky- in most cases there is very little a parent can do if their 4 year old is hitting unless they are there. DS3 (just 3) is a terrible one for whacking his brothers- we deal with it at home. If he was hitting at nursery (AFAIK he's not) I would expect them to deal with it (and I would support them in how they went about that, but I don't think me gassing on 5 hours after the event would be nearly as effective as them dealing with it firmly on the spot).

To those worrying about Bobbysmum's nursery, her opinions may not match her nursery's policies, in which case there's nothing to worry about.

OMG !! i didn't realise my question would spark so much debate.

Firstly I must say that I have found some of the comments referring to my son's behaviour quite upsetting & hurtful. I'm not going to say my 4 year old is an angel but as some of you have said I'm sure he didn't deliberately set out to break the window. I don't know the exact details as I wasn't present, but as far as I can gather he was asked to put the trains away, but wasn't happy as he wanted to continue playing.

I also want to clarify, I didn't offer to pay - When speaking to the nursery Manager I asked if she expected me to pay, she said 'no, ofcourse not'. If she had said 'yes', I was going to say I didn't think I should as it was an accident (she even said it was an accident). My Husband did offer to pay, but that was before speaking to me and knowing she had already said we wouldn't have to pay.

Anyway, after reading the posts and discussing it over the weekend I have decided to pay the bill, as I think I mentioned I don't want to fall out with the nursery and before this incident I have always been very pleased with the service they offer and can't fault the care my son receives.

Eh, hang on minute, I haven't actually said what I'd do in this situation, so everyone 'worrying' about my nursery should read back over what I've written before making assumptions.

As I've said, it isn't typical for a four year old to hurl toys across the room in a nursery (and certainly not hard enough to break a window), and the way I would deal with it would depend on whether it was part of a pattern of behaviour. It isn't acceptable for four year old children to act this way in a group setting (whether they act this way at home or not), because if they all did it you'd have complete mayhem. And it would be dangerous - especially for the younger children in the group. So a behaviour plan or an IEP would have to be put in place, with one-to-one support for the child if necessary.

You'd hope to have the support of the parents in all of this, but reading the comments here, you'd be lucky - this being 'normal' behaviour for a four year old (it isn't).

My nursery integrates kids with special needs really well for what it's worth, and even they don't break windows.

It sounds to me like this boy needs help, not excuses made for his behaviour. A good start would be the parents accepting some responsibility instead of moaning about the cost.

While at DPs parents house the summer before last DS2 then age 6 hit a glass panel in the door and broke it. I was beside myself that he had done so (all be it it was an accident) and I offered to pay to have it fixed. DPs mother was beside herself that my son was cut (tiny little cut one plaster jobby) and would not hear of me paying.

I think if it was done in school or nursery I would still have offered to pay.
As for 4 year old boys, I have survived two of them and yes 4 year olds have been known to throw things, I did point out to mine that it was dangerous and naughty and that they were not to do it, but it took a while for them to learn throwing was not on.
If he was 14 then its different, 4 is still very little.

I find it really odd the nursery have asked. Surely they are claiming on their insurance for the other half of the cost so what difference would it make to claim for the full cost?
It sounds to me like they are trying to be as equally nice to you back as you are trying to be to them.

They sound like a nice nursery with good communication with parents. Why dont you go in again and speak to the manager and tell her what you are thinking and feeling....maybe clear the air all round?

Believe me, most four year olds do not throw things at nursery. Can you imagine the injuries that would occur if they did?

I've mentioned one - a broken finger - and that came from a wooden brick that was thrown onto the floor from a three year old at standing height.

Would you find it less acceptable if the child had thrown a chair across the room? Because I don't really see the difference.

My son does not need help - I really can't believe you can make such hurtful & upsetting comments from just reading 1 post about 1 isolated incident. You don't know my son and I can't believe you have decided he is a troublemaker who needs help. The nursery are not concerned or worried about the incident and i'm sure if it had been more than an accident or he is continually being disruptive or having tantrums I would be made aware of it. I did go to the nursery the next day to enquire about his general behavour and they said he was doing fine, and was progressing well.

This is the first time I have posted on this site and I'm definately never going to again. I thought it was a site where you could get advice & share views with a friendly bunch of mums, but obviously not.

Thanks to those of you who have given your constructive views, but I'm not not going to waste my time replying to any other posts that go on this thread discussing my Son as its not worth me getting more upset.

pauamcg- I think most people have disagreed with bobbysmum07. Do stay.

Happy now Bobbysmum?

Pauamcg please don't leave Bobbysmum was in a real minority here and you have had a lot of support.

Please don't be put off, there is a lot of helpful advice on mumsnet and a lot of really nice people.
Not every one always agrees with everyone else and thats ok.

I am sorry you have been hurt by what has been said, I think your son sounds like your run of the mill 4 year old, everyone has an off day.

pauamcg I think you have made the right decision regarding paying the nursery and I agree that no one here should be saying that your son needs help on the basis of one post - especially the so-called professional.

Sorry you feel you don't want to post here again. Sometimes things get a bit out of hand and the issues discussed are not so much about the original post but more the wider issues if you see what I mean? Most of the discussions are very helpful and most posters are kind too, honest.

I can't believe some of the hurtful comments i have read on this thread
Maybe someone should throw something at bobbysmums head, and knock some humanity into her!

As a childcare and parenting adviser I would never pass judgement on a child, especially on the basis of such limited information.

Bobbysmum was out of order in what she said and IMO you deserve an apology. As a childcare professional it's made me feel very

Being that you didn't (as I first thought) offer to pay, that's slightly different. Can you comfortably afford to? If so I would do so and that would be the end of it. If not then I'd be inclined to have a chat with the Manager, as really on all accounts you should not have to.

Please do continue to post most of us are very friendly and helpful.

Please don't let an unthinking, unfeeling idiot like bobbysmum get to you pauamcg. The majority were supportive of you and were only deliberating the payment issue until her ludicrous comments.

Hope this doesn't put you off for good.

Perhaps bobbysmums (troll, IMVHO), nursery runs on a regime of fear and intimidation which is why she rarely sees incidence of throwing?

The shocking think is, I don't think she is a troll as other posters knew her and that she owned a nursery!