Should my 4 yo DS be forced to sing and dance at nursery if he doesn't want to??

[ludaloo]

My ds is just 4. He'll be starting primary school in Jan.
He has become increasingly upset about going to nursery ( he goes for 4 mornings a week) and TBH leaving him crying is becomming unbearable.
My good friend is an assistant at his nursery, so I have been handing him over to her, who cuddles him...then I just dash out.
He has been going there since he was 2 and a half...but about a year ago we had a new leader...and new assistant (my friend).
My friend told me today that he had been crying...and recently he has become increasingly anxious about singing/dancing, and he follows her about asking if they are going to sing. He burst into tears today, as the leader had told him he had to sing...everyone else is singing so he has to join in.
My friend is in an awkward position, as she told him not to worry...and to sit with her, but then the leader said no..he had to join in. When she said it shouldn't matter if he sits out, the leader said, well it does matter, if he sits out, then everyone will want to sit out...and what is he going to do when he gets up to primary school?....he'll have to join in then...

So....what shall I do? Clearly he is very distressed about singing/dancing...and to be fair..they do lots of it at nursery!
I can't bear the thought of him being so upset, and the tears we have each morning is heart braking.
He told me a few months ago that he didn't like doing one particular song...and I had asked the leader if he could possibly sit out until he felt comfortable with it, to which she replied "yes".

I'm just not sure whether asking if he can sit out of singing/dancing is the right thing to do...or that the leader is right to make him do it

He is only 4 though, and I can't see that singing and dancing is important enough to warrant a sad and anxious little boy who no longer wants to go to nursery because of it.

bump..

tbh I think the leader does have a point. If an exception is made for your ds to sit out of not singing then the exception has to be made for other children not doing the things they don't want to do.

And if the school your ds is going to is anything like mine then there will be lots of singing in reception so it's something he'll have to get used to.

At this age children do need to start to learn that there are sometimes things they have to do even if they don't want to. In fact our school is doing a christmas play and they're all going to be singing.

What do I do about the tears though...he does seem genuinly upset about having to do it...

It doesn't seem to be getting any better either.

It isn't important enough to warrent making a child unhappy about, and i know that my son's reception teacher would never make them miserable about something that doesn't matter.

The play leader is being insensitive and bullish about this. She obviously has her heart set on Happy Smiling Jolliness and heaven help any child who won't be bulldozed into it.

For the time that's left, I would pull him out if you can, and tell them bluntly why. He is NOT obliged to go to school until he is 5. Just explain to him he is going to a different class with a different teacher after Christmas.

If you can't pull him out, Have Words. Have Words like "Forcing him to participate to the detriment of his mental health is not conducive to a good attitude to school" and "If you continue to bully my four year old because he doesn't fit in precisely with what you want, I will be speaking to the head teacher" and "Overly adult directed play has been shown to be detrimental to a child's learning experiance"

good god he is 4, tell her to leave him OUT of the singing if he doesn't want to do it

poor little boy, dd1 is very sensitive and had always been left out of stuff if she doesn't want to do it - in fact, I told the playgroup that she was on the sensitive side and if she didn't want to do something, not to force it, she will come round eventually

same with school, she actually did a play the other day, one little boy didn't want to do it so they let him turn pages of a book instead so he could sit at the side of the stage

forcing small children to do things at this age is a huge no-no imo

Think that wannabee is right but there are ways of doing it without making him unhappy. Not entirely sure how you can force anyone to sing or dance mind you. My LO didn't really care for sitting quietly at nursery or putting toys away (quelle surprise ) but he got it in the end. Because all the other children were doing it - he was left to his own devices for a while and found it boring and lonely.

(sorry...the sad face wasn't a response to your post...I was bumping..)

is he sensitive to noise? dd1 is and when they do singing which involves a loud noise or shout at the end, she covers her ears in readiness, bless

I strongly advise you going in to speak to the woman in charge

I'm not sure that he should be forced to join in. I've taught reception and I think that while most kids love singing etc, there are a few who are acutely embarassed by it and whilst I have always encouraged them to join in I think forcing the issue might do more ham than good.

I would make him sit with the others during singing time and perhaps do the actions.

Sorry your ds is so upset.

How horrible. Ofcourse he shouldn't be made to sing, that's absolutely ridiculous and as for: "if he sits out and then all the others want to sit out as well", then that just shows her that she'll have to think of something else to do.

My son never liked these type of things and he didn't at school either. I used to ask the teachers to make sure he did his bit early to get it out of the way in school assemblies, so ofcourse they always put him at the end...he made his point though by bursting into tears and running off the stage..that'll learn them!

My daughter is totally the other way and wants to sing and dance all the time. It's totally down to the individual child, they either love it or hate it and forcing them to do it is going to encourage them to want to do it at all.

My son, by the way, is now 14 and happy to play the guitar etc in front of people and is soooo popular. There's nothing wrong with a child being a bit reserved.

I'd put your foot down with a firm hand if I were you. Say your child has been told by the doctor not to do it or something....these bossy people are always scared by authority like that.

SK

harm, not ham, lol!

My sons nursery (he is in year 1 now) did child led activities, meaning there were not necessarily just one activity happening at the time. While one assistant was doing singing and dancing, another was doing painting, or building train tracks. The children would chose what to join in with.

This was of course good for the children while at the nursery, as nobody was forced to anything. But their approach went a bit further, children could chose if they were to help tidy up, chose if they were going to eat lunch, etc. It was in my opinion taken abit too far, because suddenly my son would be asked to come have tea at home, and he would say "no, I want to play more".

When he started school he had problems, because it was too big change for him, and the teachers struggled. When I told them how things had been at the nursery, they were able to understand and put things into context. He refused to go to Assembly, they let him browse books in the library (under supervision) till he was happy to join in. They put no pressure on him.

I think you have to talk to the leader at the nursery, find out what is happening. Ask if he can sit out and do his own thing for now. Putting pressure on him is not really likely to work. Whatever happens in school in January, is between you, your son and the school. I am sure they will be able to work with you, if you tell them your concerns.
There is a big difference between letting a child sit out on ONE activity and letting them chose all activities with only regard for themselves.

Good Luck.

My Ds3 hated singing and dancing to start with and was allowed to sit and watch until he felt ready to join in,which he does now.Took months though.
He wasn't allowed to go and do something else either,just stand and watch.
How does she imagine anyone is going to 'make' him sing and dance?
Now or at school?

If he's just left alone,surely he'll work out for himself that the others are enjoying it and having a good time and join in when he's good and ready.

She sounds a bit 'brisk' tbh.

Well my friend tells me more than she should really (and I am grateful for it TBH) but the last time he was very upset, he had been pulled by the arm to get up and dance...she had then picked him up because it made him cry...and the leader had tutted at my friend. I went in the next day and spoke to her about it, and she said she would let him sit out from doing that particular song..

Thank you all

While I agree they do need to learn to do things they don't really want to do, I just feel that it is too stressful fo him, and it will just create bigger issues to make him join in...

I will speak with the leader in the morning...

She's not running a troop of performing monkeys fgs!
Does she know anything about pre-schooler psychology at all?

sugarfree I think I will suggest that she just lets him watch...perhaps whatever anxiety he has will slowly go when he sees all the other children having fun?

She has been in the nursery for about a year now...I get the impression that she isn't particularly compassionate...my friend is struggling to work with her TBH..

Not every child likes singing. Not every adult likes singing for that matter. The leader is out of order in forcing him to join in. What rot!

My friend's DD always got upset when the children in Kindergarten sang "We are going on a bear hunt" so they stopped singing it for a while. She sometimes got a bit upset at some other songs so one of the teachers would go out wiht her. This is the best approach, imo.

I teach small children and I would never force a child to do join in. Sometimes the other children then start sayign that they do not want to do the activity. If that happens, then it is up to me to make the activity so interesting and fun that the children want to join in again. If I realise that I am losing them, then I do something else.

It is certainly not worth spoiling his whole nursery day (and his time at home if he is worrying about it) by making him sing and dance. Poor soul.

Do as SpiritalKnot says, put your foot down with a firm hand. lol, like that expression!

colditz I have seriously considered taking him out...only because I hate to leave him so upset every day, but then I think he should really be mixing to prepare him for school in january...

Perhaps if he doesn't get any better after I have spoken with the leader then I'll keep him at home until Jan...

That's what happened with my Ds Luda,although be warned...I've been serenaded with "we wish you a merry Christmas" loudly,for a few weeks now!

I just don't see how she thinks she can 'make' a child sing or dance.She sounds like she is making this into a battle when there really doesn't need to be one.

kindersurprise and spiritalknot ...yes...I think that's my next course of action...I'll speak to her in the morning....if I can get him there, after today!

Less than 2 months til January,Luda,it's not the end of the world if he doesn't go to Boot Camp nursery for that long.