Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Nurseries

Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum. For more guidance on early years development, sign up for Mumsnet Ages & Stages emails.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Toileting and male staff member

39 replies

Hnr20 · 01/12/2020 21:32

My little one is 4.
She’s told me that there is a new teacher at her preschool who is a boy, and that basically she doesn’t want him to take her to the bathroom or wipe her.
Nothing against him, she just doesn’t like males helping her in the bathroom.
She’s only really ever had me and my mum around, so it’s always been us helping her on the toilet, etc. Her dad has come to visit her every week since she was born, but even then she’s never let him do it until this year. Again it’s just always been her preference and I’ve respected that.
She also doesn’t like male doctors when it comes to intimate examinations for her regarding her medical issues, so I always have to make sure it’s a woman.
I’m not going to push her into saying yes to a male being there I’m the bathroom with her just to be PC enough for people, so I don’t really know what to do about the situation.

Can I ask the nursery to just let her key worker take her or the teachers she’s closest with to take her. I don’t want her to stop asking to go to the toilet and end up having accidents again.
I don’t know how to approach this whole thing without either offending someone or upsetting my little one.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

AvoidingRealHumans · 01/12/2020 21:40

I would have thought that at 4 she would be capable of using the toilet by herself with no need for an adult to be there.
Also how many intimate examinations has she had? My children have had none so unless there's something you've not mentioned I would encourage her to use the toilet independently.
You can let the nursery know that she can go by herself and that she will ask for help if she needs it.
No need to offend anyone and you're right in that your daughter shouldn't have to do anything she's uncomfortable with.

Sexnotgender · 01/12/2020 21:42

Your daughter should be allowed to ask for a female to help with intimate care.

ivfbeenbusy · 01/12/2020 21:46

She's 4....I'm not really sure allowing her a preference is a good thing...you are perpetuating the lack of male interaction in her life which can't be healthy?. Part of me gets the toilet bit perhaps at nursery but to allow her to choose only women doctors is going to cause issues as she grows up. Does your daughter have additional needs that require at age 4 that someone wipes her? we were told by nursery/preschool that children had to be independent when going to the toilet before starting at age 3 1/2. Teachers only got "involved" if the child had an accident. The toilets were a space adjacent to the play room - so not behind closed doors with just mini doors on the cubicles themselves.

Discuss with the nursery but im not sure logistically how they will manage this - especially if every parent decides they don't want their child helped to the loo by a man

SavoyCabbage · 01/12/2020 21:48

iWork in a room with sixty four year olds. They go to the toilet by themselves. Nobody takes them.

CandyLeBonBon · 01/12/2020 21:50

She also doesn’t like male doctors when it comes to intimate examinations for her regarding her medical issues, so I always have to make sure it’s a woman

Is that so?

bluebluezoo · 01/12/2020 21:53

She also doesn’t like male doctors when it comes to intimate examinations for her regarding her medical issues, so I always have to make sure it’s a woman

How many intimate examinations has she had? Is it an ongoing thing? It’s fairly unusual for a 4 year old to need this type of investigation...

You need to teach her to wipe herself. If she has AN, then that’s a different issue.

LittleMissLockdown · 01/12/2020 21:54

Genuine question but what would happen if she had a male teacher when she started school? She needs to understand that men can be caring and helpful in exactly the same way a women can. I'd find it quite worrying that she showed such a strong preference and distrust of any men.

Ironingontheceiling · 01/12/2020 21:54

At 4 they can wipe their own bum, sn excepted.

Mysterian · 01/12/2020 21:56

I'm a male nursery worker. Tell the nursery she doesn't like men helping with toileting. It's not a problem.

Although if he's dealing with an issue in the bathroom he can't drop everything and leave.

plumpootle · 01/12/2020 22:01

Hi OP my DD is exactly the same and feels strongly about privacy and men. I'd just ask nursery if her preference can be accommodated and I can't see why they wouldn't try to do that.

Original poster

Hnr20 · 01/12/2020 22:01

She needs help when doing a poo at times otherwise she ends up with a bit left behind and we try to Avoid that because otherwise it makes her flare up there.
I obviously encourage independent toileting as much as possible and i know they do at school too. She doesn’t actually wipe herself at home, because we have to do washes every time she does a wee and that’s not quite possible for her to do at the moment. So the only time she wipes independently is when out or at school. So I can’t encourage her as much as I’d like to. I hope that makes sense.

Yes, she has a medical condition in which a dermatologist and many doctors have had to look down there to check everything is okay.
I’ve no issue with her only wanting female doctors, I know many ladies who also request only female so I see no issue in that. The last time she had a male she refused to let him see, but when we had a woman she was more relaxed.
So obviously I’m going to do what she is most comfortable with.

Her nursery is in a village hall, so the toilet is down a corridor away from the hallway.
Her other preschool she goes to has the cubicles and she’s more confident in going toilet there I’ve noticed.

OP posts:

TurkeyTrot · 01/12/2020 22:07

If the male carer is a qualified nursery nurse, then it would be unreasonable to reject his help.
If your daughter is rejecting because he is male, think about how it would work if she rejected someone's care because they were black, or brown, or spoke with an accent. Etc.

daisyjgrey · 01/12/2020 22:18

@TurkeyTrot

If the male carer is a qualified nursery nurse, then it would be unreasonable to reject his help. If your daughter is rejecting because he is male, think about how it would work if she rejected someone's care because they were black, or brown, or spoke with an accent. Etc.

What utter bollocks.

I repeatedly request female healthcare providers for medical appointments. I don't care if they're black, brown, white, talk like Mr Blobby or are wearing false ears, I'm still entirely within my rights to request a female HCP.

Any trained and qualified male preschool worker worth his salt will acknowledge that this is something that may come up and will figure out a way around it, as the nursery worker who answered above has.

Bodily autonomy is a thing, and someones qualifications don't override what you want to happen to your own body.

BornOnThe4thJuly · 01/12/2020 22:26

I totally agree with Daisy, we all have the right to ask for a female for any intimate care. I have to have regular osteopathy treatments and only ever see females. I would be ensuring my daughter felt comfortable with anyone who was helping her with the toilet at nursery.

Soontobe60 · 01/12/2020 22:33

@TurkeyTrot

If the male carer is a qualified nursery nurse, then it would be unreasonable to reject his help. If your daughter is rejecting because he is male, think about how it would work if she rejected someone's care because they were black, or brown, or spoke with an accent. Etc.

Well apart from the fact that females are, under the EA, allowed to request same sex carers for intimate care. Just because she’s 4 doesn’t mean her feelings should be ignored.

Original poster

Hnr20 · 01/12/2020 22:37

I just want to make a point that I never meant for it to cause any offence. I know that the nursery worker is more than lovely, and I would never want to offend him, but I also didn’t want to fob off my daughter, as if her preferences never matter as that isn’t what I believe in. I was just wondering how to approach the whole situation that wouldn’t upset the nursery worker or my little girl.

I’d Also just like to add that she’s also been a bit wary to start with, when new nursery workers who have been female Have started too and has been too worried to have them in the bathroom or help her until she’s got to know them.
She’s just always been a little more self conscious about it being male more so.
Again I do think this is because she has had help from predominantly women(myself, my mum, sister, etc), even her other preschool is all women, so I think it will take some time for her to become confident in asking him.

OP posts:

BornOnThe4thJuly · 02/12/2020 10:17

I think it was obvious to most of us that you weren’t trying to be offensive in any way. I think it’s ok if she never wants him to help her in the bathroom. I’m sure he’ll understand, and if he doesn’t I don’t think he should be working with very young children!

faithfulbird20 · 02/12/2020 19:20

Just tell the nursery. Simple. Not sure why some people are fighting tooth and nail to say she needs to get used to it. It's her choice. Whatever makes her feel safe. I'd slowly slowly get her to wipe herself to become more independent.

faithfulbird20 · 02/12/2020 19:22

I also don't think you need to justify why your daughter prefers women and women doctors or whatever. Men understand that. Well done for listening to your daughter btw.

PonderingPeggy · 02/12/2020 19:26

If the toilets are away down a corridor and a child needs intimate care, surely the preschool's safeguarding policy would say that two members of staff should be present?

No one (male or female) should be in the toilets alone with a child - for the protection of both the adult and the child.

BornOnThe4thJuly · 02/12/2020 20:36

@PonderingPeggy

If the toilets are away down a corridor and a child needs intimate care, surely the preschool's safeguarding policy would say that two members of staff should be present?

No one (male or female) should be in the toilets alone with a child - for the protection of both the adult and the child.

I wondered that, but it’s a long time since I worked with young children.

Thefaceofboe · 02/12/2020 21:41

If your daughter is rejecting because he is male, think about how it would work if she rejected someone's care because they were black, or brown, or spoke with an accent. Etc

This is ridiculously and absolutely not the same thing. I have requested a female doctor before because it makes me feel more comfortable, why should a child not be able to do the same? No need to relate it to skin colour because that’s completely different.

Sexnotgender · 03/12/2020 09:15

@TurkeyTrot

If the male carer is a qualified nursery nurse, then it would be unreasonable to reject his help. If your daughter is rejecting because he is male, think about how it would work if she rejected someone's care because they were black, or brown, or spoke with an accent. Etc.

Such a false equivalency. I’m always amazed people still come out with such bollocks.

joanwinifred · 03/12/2020 10:35

Weird how many people on this thread aren't allowing a 4 year old to exercise her right to say no.

There's nothing wrong with her not wanting a male doctor or a male nursery teacher to see her private parts.

Allow your children the right to say no.

joanwinifred · 03/12/2020 10:36

@TurkeyTrot

If the male carer is a qualified nursery nurse, then it would be unreasonable to reject his help. If your daughter is rejecting because he is male, think about how it would work if she rejected someone's care because they were black, or brown, or spoke with an accent. Etc.

This is really wrong and weird. Such a bad take.

Flip

1 2