Behavioural specialist after 8 days in Nursery?

[Niwalen]

Hi my daughter has been at nursery (attached to a primary school) for 8 days. 3 hours every weekday morning.Yesterday the teacher told me my daughter needs a behavioural specialist due to her 'passive non compliance' in other words she doesn't immediately do what they say as soon as they ask it. And sometimes interrupts them when they are talking to her with an unrelated query. Keep in mind that me and my husband have no extended family and she has been with us from birth to age 3 only going playgroup an hour a week and softplay. Also she was an angel at home up until this point. Suddenly she is surly, upset, and is almost out of control and begun to spit. I am dumb founded, as up until that point they had said she was good in nursery. This whole thing is stressing me to the point were I feel like pulling her out of nursery altogether so I can get my good girl back. Do you think what they are saying is fair? She's just turned 3.

@LizzieSiddal this behaviour specialist may well be the designated behaviour officer within the setting. All setting are required to have one as far as I am aware. The OP is so vague it is hard to tell if this is outside support or internal. It could be the key worker is new and wanting some advice from a colleague. As with everything in settings you need to involve the parent and keep communication line open and honest. This is responsible and best practice. I would never refer an issue to ofsted as a parent unless the setting is a) not following policies b) there is a safeguarding risk/serious accident, c) the practitioners are breaking the law or legislations, or d) they are not following the statutory framework of the EYFS. An Ofsted report is not needed for supporting children.

I was in your exact same shoes last year. I was freaking out because they wanted their Specialist to see my lo. I spoke to teacher friends of mine and they told me to go with rather than fight against it. I did, we had a single meeting and after learning some more about my lo and how lo behaved at home she said that she thought lo just needed more time to adjust (exactly what I'd thought to begin with!) and it was left at that. Lo did adjust and made great progress over the year. So it came to nothing and In the end I was glad I'd just gone along with it. I still think it was all madness because I was confident that my lo was fine and just needed time and I'm sure it will be the same for you and your lo.

I'm quite sure if ops child had obvious signs of sen the parents would know

Parents are often the last to see it and the last to accept it. In my experience parents are sometimes the obstacle to referral and diagnosis.

I worked for a nursery and the head told me that it wasn’t unusual for a parent to argue black is white that their child has no issues/behaviour problems/delays. She found it frustration because unless the parent accepted this and any help or intervention the child wasn’t getting what they needed.

The OPs child sounds like a normal child settling in to be honest - but we aren’t seeing what the staff are seeing. Speaking to the behavioural specialist won’t make a child have an issue and could just give a ‘nothing’s wrong here’ diagnosis.

For what exactly? Suggesting that they support a child to settle in

That's not what's happening though, is it?

I'm quite sure if ops child had obvious signs of sen the parents would know.
Sadly so often parents really don't know.

I'm quite sure if ops child had obvious signs of sen the parents would know.

Usually parents are the last to notice. Either through head in the sand syndrome, or genuinely not realising their child is different. We get students at secondary with undiagnosed needs because parents have refused any sort of support/intervention/specialists. It's frustrating and heartbreaking.

OP if nursery are offering this, I'd take it. Budgets are tiny and support like this would not be offered unless they had real concerns.

Parents can often not know - a first child and they won’t really have experience if they don’t know a lot of small children, or they ‘know’ but can’t admit that their child has any kind of needs.

There was a child at the nursery (where I worked) that displayed classic autism traits. The head tried to persuade the parents but they wouldn’t entertain the idea.

At the same time we had a girl who had been diagnosed and was receiving support. Her behaviour became more manageable as she learned and she was more content, but the boys deteriorated as he was, I suppose, frustrated and unhappy.

*There are 2 possibilities

Nursery are bonkers and have no idea

Nursery have dealt with thousands of 3 year olds and can see an issue.

You need to decide on which of those 2 apply.*

This 100%

Nursery have concerns.

They want to consult an expert.

That expert may or may not agree there's an issue.

Why wouldn't you consent?

The misery is not going to be referring her for normal 3yo behaviour. They don't have the funds. They have genuine concerns.

My ds is what you'd call passively demand avoidant and interiors conversations to switch it to his own agenda.
He has asd.

He's extremely well behaved. He has never actively done something he's been told not to. But he does struggle sometimes with doing what he's been told to because he can't work out the motor planning for it. Or it's not specific enough. In those cases he just withdraws, copies others - but is obviously doing it slowly and looks like he's not trying.

An expert will unpick anything that needs unpicking.

ASD is easily spotted. It really isn't for many children, many are not diagnosed until their teenage years and beyond and it's not for the parents or schools for not looking. For some children it's only by having a skilled speech and language therapist assess that it can be spotted. I've had my son reviewed by a clinical psychologist at aged 7 for aspergers was told no he did not have it. Assessed again at 10 and scores at the top end of Aspergers on ADOS. My son has friends, shows empathy, makes eye contact... it's not easy.

What harm is there to have an assessment.

Whilst i can see that your dd is still settling into nursery, i can also see that the nursery must have some concerns regarding your dd to speak to you. Yes those staff will have worked with hundreds of 3 years olds so if they are flagging up behaviour they must have some concerns. I am saying this as a mum of a child whose nursery took me to one side to raise a gentle concern over him in nursery. He was subsequently diagnosed with ASD. He is my 2nd and we didn't see it.
If the nursery want to get someone in to observe then they are trying to help and hopefully help your dd in a years time when she starts school.
And if it is just a settling in adjustment then they will see that and she will be fine and require no further help.

There are 2 possibilities

Nursery are bonkers and have no idea

Nursery have dealt with thousands of 3 year olds and can see an issue.

You need to decide on which of those 2 apply

This is great advice. Don't dismiss their concerns as they work with many children, however your child is very young and still settling in so give her time. In the meantime, ask the nursery about what you can do to support them at home and share with them strategies and routines that you have in place at home to help her settle more quickly.
Good luck

I can't see how they would get an expert in without trying to put some strategies in place first, as I suggested upthread. It looks to me like they might be telling the parents to go see a behaviour specialist, which is even more worrying because it suggests the nursery doesn't know what they're doing.

but I'm quite sure if ops child had obvious signs of sen the parents would know

You'd think so but its very often not the case.

Also, I can't see that Fandabydosy has said anything wrong and as a mum and grandma of children who have SEN I can see where she's coming from.

ASD is easily spotted

I think if you live in the world of ASD you can become very good at spotting it.

I think it's more that the nursery do know what they are doing and are trying to get support via early intervention

No disrespect to you OP, as obviously this is upsetting for you. But i imagine their is more to this than what’s in your post. Have you fully discussed the situation with the nursery? For the them to be getting professionals involved suggests their has been more than enough reason to do so or they wouldn’t do it. I’m sure they don’t enjoy things like this and are just trying to help your DD. Keep us updated x

I think if you live in the world of ASD you can become very good at spotting it

Agree with this

I think it's more that the nursery do know what they are doing and are trying to get support via early intervention

But first they need to show that they have tried some strategies. These things have to happen in stages. And also of course they need to allow the child to do a bit of settling in. But mostly they need evidence that they've tried and it hasn't worked

Absolutely, but accessing support takes a long time. They might just be starting the ball rolling. It's hard to know. Our nursery is excellent at spotting where support is needed and pushing to get help for the family. I just think that if they were truly a rubbish nursery then they wouldn't be flagging anything and would still be learning the child's name for example.

I'm an advisory teacher and I work with children from birth to 18 in a variety of settings. In my experience the poor settings are the ones that see something they don't know what to do with in a child and start trying to get a specialist in without doing anything themselves first, or start putting it all back on the parent. Either way they are trying to make someone so something about it.

A good setting / school will try to work with the parents, will do their own assessment of what the issues are (NOT a diagnosis but just the facts of what is concerning them) and then look for strategies to try and work on these things. They will plan a review and repeat the cycle before they go anywhere near getting in something like a behaviour specialist (although I still think in this situation they're trying to put it on the parents to do that).

It would also be helpful to know if this is just the kneejerk reaction of one member of staff who is inexperienced or if it is the response of the setting as a whole.

They get additional funding for kids with SEND and behavioural issues. I would refuse to let them call the support in if they've asked for you to agree to it.

As has been suggested upthread, try to re-frame this in a positive light. If school are suggesting your daughter is seen by a specialist, then great. Proceed with that and see where you end up. In the meantime, she may be settle into nursery and no harm done. However, if there are reasons to be concerned, hopefully the specialist will be able to identify and explain these to you and help develop an early intervention plan.

Nursery have seen so many many 3 year olds and should have a good sense of what is usual. We first twigged that something was a little different when my son (also my first child) started nursery. He was a well - socialised child (lots of play dates and council 'stay and plays') and exceeding milestones, but it was only when he was in the structure and routine of 3 hours a morning nursery that his quirks became more apparent.

Maybe talk further to nursery to find out more about their concerns? Might have to prompt them to speak plainly / bluntly. It may we'll be nothing but it really does seem like you have little to lose by proceeding with a behavioural specialist?

They get additional funding for kids with SEND and behavioural issues.

If only! If you mean an EHCP or SENIF it takes a lot of assessments and trying their own strategies before they stand any chance of getting extra funding - the stuff I talked about up thread.

It's all a bit of a moot point really though as it seems the OP has disappeared.

Usually parents are the last to notice

I think 'usually' is an exaggeration.