Behavioural specialist after 8 days in Nursery?

[Niwalen]

Hi my daughter has been at nursery (attached to a primary school) for 8 days. 3 hours every weekday morning.Yesterday the teacher told me my daughter needs a behavioural specialist due to her 'passive non compliance' in other words she doesn't immediately do what they say as soon as they ask it. And sometimes interrupts them when they are talking to her with an unrelated query. Keep in mind that me and my husband have no extended family and she has been with us from birth to age 3 only going playgroup an hour a week and softplay. Also she was an angel at home up until this point. Suddenly she is surly, upset, and is almost out of control and begun to spit. I am dumb founded, as up until that point they had said she was good in nursery. This whole thing is stressing me to the point were I feel like pulling her out of nursery altogether so I can get my good girl back. Do you think what they are saying is fair? She's just turned 3.

If you've previously had no issues then it's more likely nursery. I work in childcare and there's no way we would be recommending intervention after that sort of timescale. We might be observing and noting issues that are arising, but not discussing getting professionals In.

As a nursery worker, she hasn't even been there long enough to come to this conclusion. She's still in her settling in period, and we wouldn't normally baseline their deve until after a month if they have concerns at this point should've purely observational and evidence gathering. It sound a bit hasty to me.

• development not deve

There are a few things that stand out to me here.

1. Your daughter has been with you guys and is used to all of the attention on her. You are her parents and you clearly love her to bits and would understandably give her the world....... However life is about learning you can't have it all your own way. All her life she has had everything she ever needed you have built a loving caring relationship with her and now she is unsettled because things have changed. Work with the nursery don't blame them. If you pull her out she will never learn how to behave, you will have a huge battle on your hand when she has to go to school. All she will learn is that when I misbehave I get what I want and next time you put her in a preschool the behaviour will be worse. It is perfectly normal to go through unsettled periods. It is a short amount of time, in your eyes, but she has been in their care for 24 hours, a full day in the life of one so young is quite a long time. I would expect (as I have done) the key worker to be working very hard with your child, to settle her and get to know her and start to understand her needs.

2. at the age of 3 she should be able to understand and follow simple instructions and follow a conversation, the butting in is normal but with something totally irrelevant is an indication there is something not quite right with her listening and attention, there could ba a minor delay and she feels overwhelmed which is why you are seeing the behaviour. If there is a problem then the behaviour person will be able to help unpick this. It is good that they are offering support.

She hasn't been there long enough to build good relationships with the staff or make friends. They are judging her so quickly. Is there a different nursery she could go to instead? You could explain the problem you've had at this one and see if they're happier to focus on building the trust with your dd so she can relax and have fun.

she doesn't immediately do what they say as soon as they ask it. Have...have they met a child before?! I thought 'Jump to it and stop what you're doing the millisecond I say' was outdated long ago. All they need to do is a warning - '2 minutes until lunch so finish up your game/ painting' etc. Interrupting with something irrelevant also normal at 3. Nothing sounds wrong to me.

Sounds utterly bizarre. "Passive non compliance" is a great phrase and would describe my 2 and 4 year old on most days 😂

If you have also seen a change in her and she isn't happy, I'd look for somewhere else.

I’m feeling pnc this morning.

Seriously, totally ott. I’m a teacher and if I was in an early years setting I would never do this. They should be skilled enough to handle a bit of ignoring (too strong a word sorry - she’s probably still processing) and interrupting. I would push back.

Please ignore FanDaby’s post OP, it is dreadful advice.

As everyone else has said the nursery are totally out of order. She is still settling in, they have no right at all to be assessing her for anything.

I’d have no hesitation at in taking her away from this nursery. I’d also report them to Ofsted, as they are behaving so unprofessionally.

Bizarre. Your child is still settling. This will be a huge adjustment for her

Just give it time. They sound like muppets to be honest

That's a ridiculous response at this stage. If they have concerns their first step would be to think about what they will implement to help her learn to follow their instructions. They need to set her a couple of targets broken down into tiny steps and think of strategies to help her reach them. They should discuss these with you and then you all work together to those same targets.

Then they should review and reset these targets with you in a few weeks and go for round 2. Eventually if she persisted with non compliance and they have no idea they could talk to their advisor.

This doesn't show them in a very good light, if they can't work with this.

Ridiculous! My DS has just started school nursery, and while we were chatting to his teacher at his settling in session, another little boy came up and interrupted our conversation to ask the teacher an unrelated question. The teacher patiently answered him, quickly, before turning back to us. Which I think was 100% the right thing to do!

Seriously? Your child now has issues after being there for 8 days? That's 24hrs of nursery and they are questioning her behaviour?
She's 3 years old!
What 3 year old stands to attention and does what they're supposed to, especially by someone they don't know well and haven't had chance to build up a relationship with?
Also like you said she has had undivided attention from her parents and now has to share this with other kids. Of course it's going to take time to settle into this strange environment.
I would question them on how they can make such judgements so soon.

@LizzieSiddal Part of nursery work is to assess everything a child does and how you can further their learning.

How can you accurately give advice on one half of a story?
Some children with SEND are immediately obvious and some first time parents don't know what to expect and don't pick up on difficulties.

An extreme change in behaviour could also point to SEND to go from being an angel to 'almost out of control' in 8 days this means she can not cope with change. This is a big red flag to anyone.

Go ahead and report them to ofsted..... For what exactly? Suggesting that they support a child to settle in which the parent herself has said she is having difficulties with! There are things in the original post that don't add up 'she was an angel up until this point' ???

No child is perfect all the time because children play and learn through trial and error. Yes they make mistakes which is brilliant because they are learning. The best lessons are made through mistakes. It is also normal that children have tantrums when asked to do something they don't want to do, the nursery are saying she is passive so possibly not understanding what is being said, assessments are the best way to gather information to make a plan to help the child.

PARENTS HAVE THE RIGHT NOT TO CONSENT TO THE BEHAVIOUR SUPPORT!!! If she doesn't want it then she can say no or can we give her longer to settle in. Problem solved

Although why would you not support your child? I have known teachers pick up on SEND within an hour of meeting a child sometimes you just know the children who require extra support. That support may be for a week, a month, a year, 3 years. What is important here is that a child is supported on their transition.

Everyone has said it is too early to tell and yes in my setting we do things differently a baseline assessment is done between 6 and 8 weeks depending on the amount of sessions a child does. We work with parents to find out where children excel in things and where their difficulties are. Just as it is too early to judge assess call it what you will, it is equally too early to pull her out just because the nursery have asked the parent if they can support a child.

Maybe what was said to mum could have been said better, I don't know because that information is not written in the post.

I don’t think what they are saying is fair at all. It sounds as though your dd is having an extreme reaction to the situation. One hour a week at a playgroup, softplay and only the two of you isn’t enough to give your dd enough social skills to be in a class setting.

It sounds as though she needs more practice. I was the kid, who didn’t know how to react around other children. At age 3 I remember feeling really stupid at the 1 1/2 hour drop and run playgroup as I didn’t know how to play with other kids.

Is your dd able to verbalise how she feels about the place? Is she also getting upset at drop off etc? Can you maybe try sending he somewhere else?

Just for comparison, my dd is an only child, no family locally. I got friendly with other mums and we met and hung out a couple of times a week. She went to nursery once a week from about 1 and by 3 1/2 she was going 3 days a week. She got lots of experience of being with other kids due to my situation.

In your situation, I would be thinking about sending your dd elsewhere. I know that means she will not have the benefit of knowing the children when she starts school. But mixing with other children in an environment, where she feels more settled will be of more benefit imo.

Will your dd be going to this school? Is the whole school very strict? Is there another school in catchment? I think you should be researching a bit more about the school tbh. Maybe speak to the head of the school about your dd and see what they say.

As none of us are there I don't think we can judge that the nursery is wrong, resources are scarce and they would not have sought additional help unless they were struggling. I'm wondering if they have underplayed their worries to you, teachers cannot diagnose etc but they can have strong suspicions. Sometimes it takes an outside person to spot something - my family doctor diagnosed my dd as autistic during a 10 minute routine consultations, of course it took specialists etc to get the formal diagnosis but the doctor met her, talked to her and said "something is wrong" within a few minutes which we hadn't noticed, I too stayed home with my kids. Let them do their investigations, she may settle and it comes to nothing (great) or perhaps they can provide the support she does need and how brilliant they picked it up early. Wait and see, don't worry unduly and be pleased that they are looking out for her

I'm not sure I understand sorry. What is a behavioural specialist? Are they saying they see some signs of SEN? I'm not trying to imply this is the case btw.

Lots of children don't do as they are asked straight away but on the other hand, but the out of context speaking and attention difficulties can be associated with things like ASD if there are other flags too. Have they raised any other concerns? How is she socially?

the teacher told me my daughter needs a behavioural specialist

OP, are the nursery saying that they will get someone in to help, or are they suggesting that you need to arrange and pay for this?

I agree with PPs that this seems a bit heavy handed at this stage and that there's probably more the nursery staff can do in conjunction with you first.

However, if they have access to someone then I doubt it would do any harm to get some advice on how best to help your DD handle the transition to nursery.

If they're suggesting you should pay for it and you don't want to, though, you can politely decline.

Are the nursery saying they will refer to a behaviour specialist? Let them! It won’t be instant anyway, referrals take time. If your daughter does need support then she will be on the right path to get it, and nice and early on. If she doesn’t, the behaviour specialist will spot this and no harm done. Honestly, schools don’t refer to these outside services for the fun of it! They cost the school money and take time for the paperwork etc. I honestly think your best course of action is to go with it - if there is no additional need there it will soon become apparent when external services get involved!
i wish some of the nurseries I have worked a would be so pro active.

Honestly ask yourself - what harm can come from a referral? And on the flip side - what harm can come from refusing a referral and finding out later on that your daughter needs support?

@LizzieSiddal Part of nursery work is to assess everything a child does and how you can further their learning

Yes I know thanks, I have worked in several nurseries. You don’t “assess everything a child does” in 8 days then call in a behaviour specialist. The child is still settling in and needs time.

Fandaby I also disagree with your advice, I know it's coming from a good place but I'm quite sure if ops child had obvious signs of sen the parents would know.

The child is settling in so any observations should be disregarded at this point, until the child has settled and made secure positive attachments to the staff and other children.
Children shouldn't be automatically be expected to listen to people they do not know. And no 24 hours is not a long time.

Some children take longer to settle and op has already stated the child has just been at home with her, which would clearly indicate needing a longer settling in period. They should be helping her to settle and finding her interests and comforts, not suggesting that she needs intervention when they clearly don't know the child well enough.

It's completely unprofessional they should be working to build bond and attachment, maybe take child in a smaller group of children and one to one etc this is ridiculous

OP - my guess is the nursery staff are trying to underplay their concerns to you so as to not worry you.

I guess they suspect she has ASD and are taking the appropriate first steps.

I had no idea my DS had ASD till he went to school.

It is very very hard to understand what they’re saying because they do talk in euphemisms. But try and have a meeting and see if they’ll talk more plainly. And bring a friend to support you......

Remember they’re not allowed to diagnose. ASD is easily spotted if you know what to look for but they often don’t like to tell you straight because they’re not allowed to diagnose.

There are 2 possibilities

Nursery are bonkers and have no idea

Nursery have dealt with thousands of 3 year olds and can see an issue.

You need to decide on which of those 2 apply.

place but I'm quite sure if ops child had obvious signs of sen the parents would know.

I’m a Nursery teacher, and oftentimes we were the first to raise concerns.