Help - baby left crying hysterically for 15 minutes

[Bellseybub]

My 18 month old baby started nursery 6 wks ago part time. Its extremely difficult leaving her as she gets very upset. Having been told by the nursery that staying to settle her in for 5 - 10 minutes at the beginning of each class 'doesn't do her any favours', I have heavy heartedly had to hand her over to the nursery nurse after a few minutes who then comforts her. I find myself constantly searching for a nursery nurse that will give her a cuddle and sooth her upset and the one person who seemed capable of doing this left the nursery last week. I stay outside the class room to observe and normally she calms within 5 minutes - it's like a roller coaster of emotions. I hate it I hate it I hate it

Today I have come away from the nursery school deeply uncomfortable. My daughter was distraught this morning (more so than most), and the tears were rolling down her face. She does not cry like this at home and is such a sunny baby.
As usual, I was encouraged out the door and waited to see if my little girl was ok. I did feel like I was placing a burden on them by asking them to take her and comfort her as I left.

I don't think the nursery nurse realised I was still there as I waited outside. I was quite aghast that within minutes my very upset and crying hysterically little girl was put down on the mat and left wondering aimlessly crying her heart out on her own. The nursery nurse wasn't rushed off her feet but obviously decided calming a child isn't her priority. My heart as a mother says what kind of a person can leave such a young child so upset to fend for themselves. Thankfully another nurse came and wiped my daughters eyes and lifted her up which soothed her. I hoped this was just a one off.

However, Upon collecting my little girl an hour earlier, I was totally shocked to see her sitting with all the other children at the table - she was hysterical, shaking and in tears. It just isn't like her. I asked the teacher what happened and was quite taken aback (obviously my daughter was not going to be eating her lunch in this state and hadn't touched her food) and they said she hadn't been crying long. I asked how long and they said '15 minutes'. I was completely shocked as the teacher was sitting in a seat overlooking the children and clearly didn't once get up to calm my child or see if she was ok. 15 minutes is a long time. I presume she thinks it is 'self soothing' but I feel physically sick. She then told me she couldn't keep picking her up. I can understand that nursery nurses are busy, but am pretty horrified they left her in this state for 15 minutes and tried to put her at the diner table in this state when she was very obviously upset to the point that the whole class was quite subdued by it. I also thought in my heart of hearts that nursery care would be soothing and loving. Am I just naive or is this normal practice?

To make matters worse, she said to me 'maybe she is just feeling under the weather'. Well if she was, surely this is more reason to calm her down? I am having serious doubts about what to do and have left the headteacher a message to catch up. My husband thinks we should remove her (and I certainly can't let her suffer like she did today which I can see no positive impact of, other than damaging her long term). I am desperate to hear from other mothers on whether they have the same issues at their nurseries or if this is not normal. What can i do to remedy it? I am wondering if they are short staffed but its not an excuse. The nursery has a grade 2 from ofsted but I was horrified when doing more digging to find out it had a grade 4 in 2013 which is quite a serious matter. They have great classes but I just haven't been enamoured by the teachers in her class, and I thought at first I had picked a nursery with a real family environment. It really feels like a needle in a hay stack.

Furthermore the nursery tell me my daughter won't eat. She has a habit of waiting for me to collect her then eating at home. After today's episode it was obvious they make no effort to help her eat and leave her to her own devices. If she finds it a traumatic experience and they aren't doing anything to help her, how can it possibly be better? And what was the teacher doing sitting over all these children without any interaction to encourage them?

My heart says this isn't right, but my head says maybe this happens in most nurseries.. If it isn't normal, should I report it to ofsted? . I just don't know what to do and don't want to do long term damage by not addressing it. Any advice is much appreciated!!! From a very distressed mum

Oh OP I've read your updates, I feel for you. You say it's in Fulham but that's a "trek" - PM me if you want a recommendation in SW18. (Don't know where you are trekking from!)

OP - I hope you can find an alternative. I feel for you, I would say my DD cried a lot on starting nursery BUT in reality it was only a few mins and she was comforted.
Now I usually drop off a bit later than some parents and there is rarely anyone crying - if so, they are having a cuddle.
All your daughter needs is a warm and happy place, not classes. In my toddler's room (1-2 years), they have different activities laid out on the table, but they have free play and lots of books - someone is always on a knee having stories or singing nursery rhymes.

Do raise your concerns to the manager though - this shouldn't be standard practice and your DD won't be the only one who cries at first.

The first situation I wouldn't be that worried with if they had left her for an appropriate amount of time.
I nanny two children of the same age, the LG will sometimes cry when her parents leave and I will give her a little cuddle and then put her down and get some toys out, she will keep crying but stops within 5minutes and then is her usual cheerful self,whereas she just keeps getting worked up if I keep cuddling her. The LB I look after cries when his mum leaves but he always settles with a cuddle so that's what I do, if I put him down then he would just get more upset.
Different children respond to different settling methods and it might have been that the nursery worker was trying to learn what works best for your LG (I'm not sure how long she was left for so I may be wrong here) However the lunch time behaviour is completely inappropriate and I would discuss it with the nursery manager and your daughters key worker.

Also agreeing with the above, if you can afford to then a nanny is really brilliant. I am a nanny and we go out every morning to either a playgroup or a class. Then home for lunch and nap and then we do some crafts or a playdate or park trip in the afternoons. The children get plenty of socialisation but also a chance to rest in the middle of the day and have some one to one time with me.
As for your worries about not knowing the nannies background, a good nanny will be able to give you references and show you all her paperwork, I have a portfolio with my DBS, Ofsted registration, qualifications, first aid, insurance etc in it that I take to any interview to show the parents so that they feel confident about me as a professional as well as a loving caregiver.

Another one here suggesting a CM. We went to a few and went with our gut. DH preferred one particular one but I just got a lovely warm feeling about a different one. I pulled rank and we chose the one that I had a wonderful gut feeling about.

DD was there from 4 months old but is now 6. The CM is one of my very best friends and DD would still rather go to her in the holidays than anywhere else and gets very jealous when she knows that I've been there for a cuppa while she's at school.

Not only that but DD is still best friends with two of the DCs that were there at the same time as her.

I'll never forget the support that the CM gave to ME! She insisted that I phone or text several times a day if I needed to or just popped down and peered in through the window. But I never felt the need.

Looking back I can see that I was probably a nightmare Mum. But DD didn't drink/eat much so I had a little book where I asked the CM to write down how much milk she'd had (FF), how much food, how many nappy changes etc. She did it without question and always told me if she had any concerns.

Seriously, if you can find the right CM (any decent one will allow you to speak to parents of their current charges), they are worth their weight. My CM genuinely loves all of our DCs and has an incredible bond with them. She's an amazing amazing person.

Good luck OP. Your DD will be OK, but don't take her back there...

Half days offered suggests low demand, which implies low quality. You'd be better taking a whole day somewhere decent. Maybe a Montessori - staff generally more trained and committed.

I think maybe a nursery isn't for you. It was for me, but I think a nanny or a childminder would be better suited for you.

I see what the nursery are saying about you not staying to comfort. I think it's generally understood that the quicker parents go the better (certainly in every nursery, playgroup, school my DCs have attended). And I, like you, used to do the 'linger out of sight' technique - its such a wrench.

Also, there are some DCs who cry a lot in nursery (my DS had a girl in his class when he was a preschooler, who he referred to a 'Sarah who always cries'!). It's not always the best technique to constantly comfort some DCs, as I really think it can make things worse in some instances.

HOWEVER, saying all of that, I would not be happy with the nurseries attitude. Dumping a hysterical child at the dinner table seems odd.

As a minimum, I think you should take this up with the nursery formally. If you don't get the response you think you should get, I'd look for other nurseries.

BTW, I am a huge fan of nurseries. The nursery my DCs went to was wonderful. And they did half days!

phiney that's categorically not true in my experience. Good nurseries offer flexible options for parents, half days are part of that. It doesn't reflect badly on the nursery (in fact I'd say it shows they know what parents need)

OP, I'd move her. It sounds to me like you are prioritizing the wrong things. The classes/socialising are all nice add ons, but definitely not essentials at this age. She needs love and care.

If you can afford it, I'd hire a Nanny. The Nanny can bring her to playgroups/classes/play dates and so on. Lots of great baby music classes across London. My DS has a Nanny and they're always out and about.

"Half days implies low quality? "
errr not necessarily. All nurseries round here offer and most are excellent.

I wouldn't be at all happy with this and would be looking for new childcare.

When I've seen crying kids at the nursery we used for our DC, the staff would always be cuddling them or trying to comfort or distract them. Even if all the kids look happy when I go into nursery, it's very normal for me to see the nursery nurses cuddling or carrying children or with children sat on their knees.
My DC did cry when being dropped off to start with, but I could see (the room had a window into the corridor) that the staff were cuddling them or distracting them with toys until they stopped crying.

Agree with pp that at this age, loving care is much more important than classes.

I now need to work out how to extricate my child from the nursery. They have a strict notice period and I'm not sure where I lie on this given I am looking to remove her because of the quality of care. It's not a cheap nursery.

Does anyone have any tips on how to find one and how to Check their credentials? I'm Putney based and know Wandsworth council have a list but it was a little like a needle in a hay stack... Would The nannying also generally be at my house? Thanks for all your tips. It's helped to consolidate things in my mind. Next steps are to find a way out and new childcare.

Nannying is at your house. That'll save you pick up and drop off. I gather you work from home so could you go and work in a coffee shop like the rest of fecking London.

Once you've read the reports, word of mouth nothing better than a good look round. Check mumsnet local for recommendations?

Yes the nannying would be at your house, I was a nanny and the most stressful time is when parents work at home for the same reason that nurseries want you to leave. Its not about you witnessing anything at all, it's about the child never relying on the child carer because Mummy is there, it feels so un natural coaxing children from their parents and all of the time, and popping in and out of the house for activities etc becomes a massive obstacle because every time is leaving the Mum again even if she is tucked away in a bedroom.
I remember the sinking feeling of an activity ending because I knew Mummy was at home and just thinking I shouldn't be this on edge I don't want to go back. The children couldn't relax into the arrangement easily.
I think the child minder idea is a good one if you are working at home, your dd can let go of you for the day and not hope and expect to bump into you around the house.

My DD goes to nursery for half days only. This is our arrangements for now as I am on mat leave with a new baby, and I am happy with the quality. I read somewhere that half days are less stressful for them. So I don't think it is fair for someone else to suggest half day availability means low demand. Different people have different working patterns. I have some friends who work shifts who use a nursery in mornings to let them get sleep.

We have found that when my parents have been helping with childcare to allow me to do some work from home, DD1 is much more clingy to me than usual and always wanting to see me. If she doesn't know I am there, ie if I arrive home when they are out and then stay upstairs she is just fine. But it is quite hard work all round. Again I agree that a childminder or a different nursery probably your best option.

I've not rtft but just to give you some perspective. My dd1 started nursery at 2 so bit older than your dd. She found it hard too. She was very tearful. It is often best to leave them.

However, whenever my dd was upset she would have cuddles with a member of staff (I know this from dd whose language is pretty developed and she'd tell me about cuddles) to the point where a few days she was attached to a member of staff for cuddles.

She settled after around 6 weeks and me reducing her hours. And that's with very caring staff.

What you are seeing is not normal or OK. I would move your dd.

Hi another one saying this isn't right. My two DC have been so happy at a fabulous nursery where the staff genuinely adore them and smother them with kisses and cuddles. I always walk in at pick up to laughter, singing and a happy child.

I would totally recommend it and it might be the right area for you.
Pm me if you want details.

So after all of your advice and amazing support I spoke to the nursery. I think they knew I was uncomfortable. I have left feeling quite sick. They told me that they couldn't comfort her because it wouldn't be fair on the other children. I said that it is slightly different if a child is crying hysterically for a period of time and just needs to be calmed. They said they understood that but they just couldn't do it because again 'it's not fair on the other kids'. I explained the other kids weren't upset. I said I couldn't feel comfortable in the knowledge my baby may be upset and no one was comforting her. I told them that perhaps she is too young for nursery and it's just not working out. They said they can totally understand that. I'm in shock. Surely they would be concerned? I'm a good parent, I do whatever they need of me, I don't overburden or interfere too much but have a healthy interest in my child's happiness. I can't believe a nursery would not be concerned or bothered or say that leaving a hysterical child without any attention is acceptable - particularly as they know the parent is clearly not comfortable. Please tell me this just isn't right!!!

Their attitude is absolutely awful. It really is.

Ex nursery keyworker and room manager here of a 0-2 room. Nothing to say other than 18 months old crying and distressed are cuddled. Especially new children. If three are crying at the same time you get on the floor and cuddle them all then attempt to distract with an activity. I have had new ones cling to me for weeks. It's fine. They hold your hand and 'help' you with jobs!

Overheard by letscallher Gracie's mum, about to pick her up from nursery :
"Which one's that, it's been howling all morning ?"
"0h it's only Gracie as usual ,she'll stop if you pick her up".
Gracie didn't go back.
nb - there are good nurseries as well as bad.

it wouldn't be fair on the other children. - I am flabbergasted! The other children are not crying hysterically - they don't need comforting or picking up! So what is "unfair" about picking up the one who is upset???

They sound shit and they just can't be bothered to help a new baby settle in because it's too much effort.

Find a warm, maternal childminder. Babies and young toddlers don't need classes or activities, they need a positive relationship with someone who makes them feel safe, a parent-substitute.

It's not you, it's them. They sound dreadful, and I wouldn't bother giving them any more chances.

Your DD is not necessarily too young for nursery, it's more that this nursery is not meeting any of her needs. My DS went to nursery at 11 months and he's still there now at aged 3yrs plus. The staff are warm and kind, they comfort any child that needs it (of course!) and they want to work with parents to do the best for the children. It's genuinely a wonderful environment for children.