Would you expect to know if a key worker had recently served a prison term for a violent crime?

[LadyMuck]

If a worker at your nursery or playgroup had recently (within last 2 years) served a custodial sentence, would you expect to know or prefer not to know? [In the instance I'm thinking of no abuse to children was involved].

Yes. Irrespective of adult or child victim or circumstance, I would expect to know. A person with convictions relating to violence/assault should not be allowed to work with children full stop.

if theu were violant then I would have concerns

i don't really think that i would send my child to a playgroup that employed a person who had served a custodial sentence a short time ago....sorry but my children are too important....

For a violent crime, I'd expect them not to be employed by a nursery full stop (I thought that wasn't allowed, but presumably I'm wrong).

In this instance the parents haven't been told, so presumably there is no legal obligation for them to be informed?

if i respected the nursery then i would trust their decision

I guess it would depend on what the crime was, really. Violent assault is a different kettle of fish to, say, shoplifting.

Why do you ask, LM?

I'm aware of a situation where this has happened - a woman starting working at a local playgroup within 3 months of being released. None of the parents were informed of her history. I guess I wonder how common it is (I work in a profession where I lose the right to practice if I had a similar conviction, so am a little shocked that it is perfectly OK to carry on working with small children, but I guess I haven't thought a lot about it).

I haven't checked any of the staff at ds2's playgroup (who all seem lovely Surrey ladies), but for all I know one of them could be a convicted drug smuggler.

are you sure this person is being employed legally? What is the point in doing police checks on people who work with children if they don't filter out recent violent crime?

but people who have served a sentence have a right to rehabilitation and reintegration that is the basis of our justice/social system

yes, but not in a job that involves working with children (well, not immediately anyway). violent crime suggests temper, and tempers and children do not mix.

depends on what the sentence was for

Is she a volunteer?

According to Ofsted being convicted of assault occasioning actual bodily harm against an adult, for example, should disqualify you from working with children in a daycare setting.

So unless this violent offence was "just" common assault or battery (ABH being the next one up from those) I'd be inclined to think that the nursery had been fudging their checks or fudging their reporting to OFSTED (potentially there's a difference between a nursery and a playgroup there, though, as a nursery needs to be registered for providing daycare while a playgroup (presumably) doesn't so the rules are probably less strict)

I certainly wouldn't expect to know, if the decision had been taken to allow her to work then telling the parents would be madness and completely unfair on her. she is entitled to some privacy.

I disagree that this woman is entitled to privacy at the expense of parents making an informed choice about who is looking after their children. Call me conservative, but I would not want my child left in the care of anyone who had served a prison sentence for a violent crime. I wouldn't allow that person to babysit, I wouldn't send my child to his/ her house on a playdate, and I certainly wouldn't leave them alone with my child for 8 or so hours a day. In fact, call me a snob, but I'd not be going out of my way to invite that person over for coffee. Even if it were a minor violent crime. Someone who has managed to get a prison sentence for a violent crime (they're not that easy to get) has behaved at the very least, like the kind of yobbo I don't want having a significant input into my child's life. I have a right to know if someone like that is employed at the nursery, so that I can choose to send my child elsewhere.

Difficult issue this one.
Firstly the parents have absolutely no right to be informed-a CRU disclosure is a confidential document between applicant and person seeking disclosure (also the seeker is legally bound by confidentiality).
Employing that individual is up to the discretion of the Manager/Owner and one just hopes that their need for an employee did not override their judgement of an applicant's suitablity to work with children-of whatever age.

I guess though it is quite a lot to trust the nursery/playgroup owner on. Until I saw this I had always assumed that anyone with a conviction wouldn't be able to work with children, but I have to say I'm now not so sure as to what the rules are (and whether Ofsted rules are in fact being breached).

I appreciate that the balance between a reformed criminal's rights to privacy and parents rights to know is a finely balanced one - would that make an outright ban easier?

what was the crime? And how do you know about it, if it is not common knowledge?

I agree with zippy/hc on this. The woman has served her sentence according to the law, she has a right now to be rehabilitated and to get on with her life, so long as the terms of her release do not state that she is not allowed to work with children, then the parents have absolutely no right to know - in reality it is none of their business if this woman has not been considered to be a risk to children.

Plus, can you imagine what telling parents in some areas would mean? In a society where people feel that it is their god given right to take the law into their own hands, this woman would potentially be at risk from vidulanti attacks from people who disapproved.

According to the head at my old school, all sorts of convictions came out of the woodwork when disclosures were introduced. Most relating to student drunkeness apparently. None posing any threat to children .

I know her husband and children (and the difficulties that they faced whilst she was inside). From a rehabilitation perspective I'm of course glad that she has a job and is working towards her NVQ. But it has made me wonder how common a situation it might be.

Every company has their own policy about this. It is up to the nursery to decide whether to employ a person with a criminal record. There is NO WAY they would let parents have this information - it is confidential.

The information is confidential but I'd be concerned about any nursery that thought it was OK to employ someone with a recent conviction for violence. Past convictions for, I dunno, benefit fraud or shoplifting wouldn't necessarily be a bar to employment but violence should be.

Yes, agree with edam. I wouldn't expect to know but I would assume (maybe wrongly) that a recent conviction for violence would automatically exclude employment in a nursery or school or anything to do with caring for vulnerable people young, old or ill.

so what crime was it? Violent crime is quite a broad spectrum IMO.

I have a cousin who served a sentence for some kind of asalt - gbh or some such - don't really know him so wasn't really up to scratch on why he'd gone down. But after he came out he joined the army - and it's changed his life.

Tbh I think it's down to discretion, after all, just because you haven't served a sentence, doesn't mean that you aren't violent iyswim.

How do we know that the headmaster, the PE teacher, the nursery teacher, doesn't beat up their partner? we don't. I imagine that if we looked more closely at the people working with our children, there are a lot more undesireables in there than we would care to know about.