Would you expect to know if a key worker had recently served a prison term for a violent crime?

[LadyMuck]

If a worker at your nursery or playgroup had recently (within last 2 years) served a custodial sentence, would you expect to know or prefer not to know? [In the instance I'm thinking of no abuse to children was involved].

[mumofben]

I work with vulnerable adults and am responsible for recruiting staff and doing crb checks. Our company policy is that it is in my discretion (same as nursery managers) whether to employ someone with a history. I have employed staff who for instance have had a shoplifting conviction 20 years ago. It should be part of the whole interview process and you have to make judgements on their trustworthiness now.

However, imo, I would not employ somebody with a history of violence, no matter how long ago it was, even if it was a one off drunken incident.

Also, due to stringent data protection laws, you have to shred the crb document once you've read it, and if you decide not to recruit due to what was on it, you cannot write down this as a reason on your interview form. You would be in serious breach of the law if you then went on to discuss this with the other staff or parents!

Like somebody said previously, you have to be able to trust the manager's judgement, after all, if there was an incident, she would be held responsible for recruiting this individual, so I'm sure the decision wasn't taken lightly.

[Fattymumma]

i would say that from experiance it would have had to be an incredibly seriouse assault for a mother of two young children to be improsened for any period, 5 months is quite a long sentance as the original sentance would have been for 12 months and then reduced.


i wouldn't expect to be told about it but i certainly wouldn't expect her to be working at a childs nursary.
all offenders have the right to a job once their conviction is completed BUT there must always be some exceptions. anyone who thinks that is unfair should refrain from breaking the law

[LadyMuck]

The crime was against another woman - it was violent, but I have no idea as to what the formal charge for which she was sentenced - either it was abh and the playgroup is acting against OFSTED, or it was something that wasn't on the list. I personally don't think that she would be a risk to the children - but I knew enough about the circs and her to have drawn my own conclusion. I guess that I feel uncomfortable that other parents don't have the information, and it makes me wonder what I don't
know about other staff iyswim. I understand the need for privacy but actually it does bother me.

[zippitippitoes]

or as a result of unmedicated schizophrenia or a psychotic episode in pnd

[zippitippitoes]

but that seems to be a supposition rather than a fact ..

it could be against a burglar or protecting someone else

using a weapon in a pub like a glass when she was afraid

who knows

[Twiglett]

no because that's confidential information and in britain we have a system where once the sentence is served it is supposed to be a new start

But I would expect to be allowed to look at the employment policies of the nursery / playgroup

and if a rumour started about that kind of helper I'd be very concerned and would probably remove my children

sorry to be hypocritical and NIMBY about it .. I've just my ethics run into my parenting with a wallop

[tiredemma]

well how can we possibly comment on whether it is acceptable for her to be working there?

If she beats kids up for fun, then obv there is a problem.

[WideWebWitch]

The caps was for emphasis btw, not shouting at you!

[WideWebWitch]

But it was VIOLENT, it says in the thread title. I think that's enough for me to say nope, shouldn't be looking after children.

[unknownrebelbang]

Nobody appears to know what the crime is.

[tiredemma]

I also dont think that a person who has been in prison for a violent crime should work with kids, but what about other crimes? Non payment of Council tax- what about that? thats a crime isnt it?

Think perhaps knowing what this crime was would help. The very fact that she is currently working with children makes me think that she is not a violent criminal. She may have commited a crime, and now be trying to sort her life out.

[tiredemma]

What kind of crime is it?

[WideWebWitch]

I don't think a person who's been in prison for violent crime should work with children.

[nannynick]

See Paragraph 2 for list of offences.

It appears to me that you don't know what the offence was, all you know is that the person served a prison sentance (unless I missed the bit where you said what the crime committed was). For all you know it could have been a driving conviction.

As you say it wasn't a crime against a child, the link above is a list to crimes against an adult which would disqualifiy someone from working with children. However, it is up to the regulator to decide that the person is Unsuitable and Disqualified... not a decision that a parent or nursery owner should make. If a nursery owner is concerned about something on an employees CRB disclosure, they should seek advice from the regulator.

As a parent, you are not entitled to know. You need to trust the nursery owner to be making the appropriate recruitment decision. If you feel the decision to employe the person is incorrect, then you should take that up in the first instance with the nursery owner. However, do not expect to be told what offence that person had committed, as that would be confidential information.

[LadyMuck]

Well I have no idea what the formal charge was - only that it was serious enough for her to be inside for 5 months, leaving behind 2 children under 6.

The specifics of this case aside, it is presumably an interesting question as to whose judegment we are trusting? Are there clear Ofsted guidelines (I did a search and part from registered sex-offenders there was just a general reference to certain convictions)? Does it make any difference as to the number of convictions?

I've never seen on the list of question to ask at a playgroup "Would you like to disclose the types of convictions that your staff have?" I can understand the need for privacy, but at the same time feel slightly uncomfortable that staff dealing with my children could have convictions for domestic violence say.

Ho hum. I'm in favour for less regulation on the whole, but it is always so difficult with your kids isn't it?

[nurseryvoice]

there is lots of new legislation that has only just come out about safeguarding children when recruiting staff.
firstly it is up to the registered person (owner or manager) to decide upon the suitability of a person based on them seeing the crb before employment starts.
however when ofsted do their inspections (every 3 or 4 years) then they will check all crbs and checks have been made.
you have to trust your manager to make the correct decision.
there are lots of laws about not discriminating against a person with remarks on their disclosure

obviously anything about harm to children should exclude them from working with children

it will be up to the manager to decide on the suitability for the person to work with children
and the ex offenders act stops you telling anyone about any previous offences.

i would not employ that person you are talking about, but that is just me. the children in my care are precious to my parents and to me and i could not live with myself if i employed a person with a known bad temper and loss of control issue.

[WhizzBangCaligula]

TBH I didn't think a nursery would ever employ anyone who had been convicted of violence, because of the control angle. If I'd known they did, I don't think I'd have even considered nursery for my kids.

Mind you, I suppose childminders could have been convicted of violent crimes in the past and that wouldn't stop them registering... would it?

[LizP]

I wonder if there was some sort of finacial deal (from probabtion service or some such) for the nursery if they employed this person as part of their rehabilitation? I would have thought the risk to the playgroup business if it did get out to the parents would mean that most people wouldn't employ this person othewise.

[Marina]

Lemonaid has spelled out that according to Ofsted anything involving ABH or more serious automatically bars you from working in daycare. So either the worker "only" has a conviction for common assault, and is legally employed, or the playgroup is not following Ofsted guidelines.
As SP says, as it is a temper-related crime, I really would not want the person working with my child.
There are other, less stressful workplace situations for someone to be rehabilitated into, I think. I have no problem with people with a criminal record being employed and would not discount a candidate on that basis.
But violent crime and small children don't mix.

[wannaBe1974]

so what crime was it? Violent crime is quite a broad spectrum IMO.

I have a cousin who served a sentence for some kind of asalt - gbh or some such - don't really know him so wasn't really up to scratch on why he'd gone down. But after he came out he joined the army - and it's changed his life.

Tbh I think it's down to discretion, after all, just because you haven't served a sentence, doesn't mean that you aren't violent iyswim.

How do we know that the headmaster, the PE teacher, the nursery teacher, doesn't beat up their partner? we don't. I imagine that if we looked more closely at the people working with our children, there are a lot more undesireables in there than we would care to know about.

[TinyGang]

Yes, agree with edam. I wouldn't expect to know but I would assume (maybe wrongly) that a recent conviction for violence would automatically exclude employment in a nursery or school or anything to do with caring for vulnerable people young, old or ill.

[edam]

The information is confidential but I'd be concerned about any nursery that thought it was OK to employ someone with a recent conviction for violence. Past convictions for, I dunno, benefit fraud or shoplifting wouldn't necessarily be a bar to employment but violence should be.

[morningpaper]

Every company has their own policy about this. It is up to the nursery to decide whether to employ a person with a criminal record. There is NO WAY they would let parents have this information - it is confidential.

[LadyMuck]

I know her husband and children (and the difficulties that they faced whilst she was inside). From a rehabilitation perspective I'm of course glad that she has a job and is working towards her NVQ. But it has made me wonder how common a situation it might be.

[beckybrastraps]

According to the head at my old school, all sorts of convictions came out of the woodwork when disclosures were introduced. Most relating to student drunkeness apparently. None posing any threat to children .